Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we'll be speaking with Roger t Pipe of Rog Reviews. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker 3.0 at adultsitebroker.com.
The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we've doubled our affiliate payouts. That's right now. When you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you're gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let's feature our property of the week that's for sale at Adult Site Broker. We're proud to offer for sale a Growing Sex Doll site started in 2016. It's grown to over 2 million in annual revenue. The owner is focused and invested heavily into SEO for the site, making sure it consistently ranks at the top in the search engines for the main industry keywords.
As a result, most of the traffic and sales are organic coming from people who have searched for Sex Dolls on Google. Other strong sales channels are the 25,000 plus person email list and an affiliate program. The owner is developed relationships with the best manufacturers. The products are drop shipped directly from the manufacturer to the customer. The store has hundreds of five star reviews on the website and on third party sites. The store currently has no employees.
Aside from the owner who works 10 to 15 hours a week on the business, SEO is handled by an agency. This is a business that can be grown by a company with experience in the novelties field. Only 2.72 million. Now time for this week's interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Roger t. Pipe of Roger Views. Roger, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk.
Speaker 2 (2m 46s): Thanks for having me back.
Speaker 1 (2m 48s): It's great to have you. Now, Roger is an avid porn fan since the mid eighties. He started reviewing adult movies as a hobby in 1995 and posting them to news groups after having them picked up by adult retail sites. Roger began Rod reviews.com in 1996. The site houses over 8,000 reviews of adult movies as well as toys, websites, and hundreds of interviews with porn stars. He's a member of the X-rated critics organization and was inducted into the X R C O Hall of Fame in 2009.
Roger is also a regular voter in the annual AVN and X R C O awards. He does a yearly podcast series, breaking down the AVN Awards nominees and winners. Roger has appeared on television on Naked New York, numerous radio programs including regular segments on Love Bites with Bob Berkowitz, k Sex Radio, Playboy Radio, daily Noise, as well as his own shows on radio dentata. Oh, I remember Old Radio Dentata. We were two of the few hosts on there.
Speaker 2 (3m 55s): Look Good Old Days.
Speaker 1 (3m 57s): Oh, yes, indeed. In 2010, Roger Penn, a chapter entitled Something for Everyone For the Collection Philosophy for Everyone How To Think With Kink. So Roger ever had any truly embarrassing moments on our industry.
Speaker 2 (4m 14s): The one that comes to mind, the first time I was on the radio on Bob Berkowitz's Love Bite show. Kind of a big deal back then. Certainly a big deal for me. I'd been doing the site for a couple years, get an email from his producer, Bob would like to have you on the show. Very excited, but also very nervous. You kind of notice when I talk, I, I talk fast when I get nervous. This is back in the IRC chat days, and I spent my afternoons hanging out with other porn fans and porn dignitaries in a, a really supportive IRC chat group.
So everybody was there, showed up to support me. This was live, everything was great doing the interview, honestly, I was doing pretty well. And Bob says, Hey, how'd you like to promote your website? Sure, great. Gave out my website. Have to say I'd stopped looking at the IRC chat cuz I was getting distracted. So I looked away from that and I give my URL and Bob says, really? Raj with a J? Yes. And I spelled it wrong a second time he hands me another lifeline.
It, it's R o j, not G I did it again. Oh no, I did it a third time. So when I went back at the end, the IRC chat, of course, was just all kept screaming at me, spelling it wrong.
Speaker 1 (5m 28s): Did you buy, did you buy a rod with a j after that segment?
Speaker 2 (5m 32s): I, I did. And of course I was mortified. But the good news is, five minutes after the show, Bob called and said, we went, well, we wanna have you on regularly. Nice. He did say, but you probably should get your, your URL right next time. So
Speaker 1 (5m 49s): I'm sure that was a good joke the next time you went on.
Speaker 2 (5m 52s): Oh yeah. Oh, I, I didn't, I never heard the end of it. As long as I was in IRC chat, I had to change my, my name actually to spell it with a J.
Speaker 1 (6m 1s): Why not? Why not? Hey, I love, I love Indian food. So there you go.
Speaker 2 (6m 6s): There we go.
Speaker 1 (6m 8s): So you wrote a chapter for a book. How did that come about?
Speaker 2 (6m 11s): I did. It was for philosophy for everyone how to think with kink. I was approached by the, it's kind of an anthology as to do, to kind of pitch an idea. Right. And I pitched an idea that's basically the chapter is about how the porn as, as a film or as a movie has evolved. Now, this was in 2009, so evolved again since then. But basically how it went from a film that had to appeal to 100% of the audience because there were only a couple hundred distribution points throughout the United States.
Right. You had to go to a theater to see the movie. Right. And how V Home VHS completely changed the game. So you went from a couple hundred to a few million distribution points. Right. And then how the internet changed it even more. And along with the technology, how the product changed from a movie. Sure. That has to appeal to everyone, to videos that could be cranked out quickly. So you could make, you know, some that appealed to this part of the audience, et cetera, et cetera, down to now where you literally can make a movie for 10 customers, charge 'em each, 40 bucks, make $400, that's your day and you move on.
Yeah. And how it really has become sort of hyper. We're in like a hyper niche time in the industry.
Speaker 1 (7m 29s): Boy are we.
Speaker 2 (7m 30s): Yeah. So it was a lot of fun writing it and I'm proud of how it came out. The rest of the collection is excellent too. It was, I'm really proud to be up, you know, up in there with some other very serious looks at the industry. Mine was kind of tongue in cheek a little bit, but also serious how, how it did change. How you had to make a movie to appeal to everyone. And how that, just how the technology led us to what a lot of people think is an inferior product. Right. Because it might not be as interesting, but certainly has reached a greater audience.
Speaker 1 (8m 3s): Right. What year was that?
Speaker 2 (8m 6s): I wanna say that was 2000, 2009. 2010. I think I wrote it in 2009.
Speaker 1 (8m 13s): Boy,
Speaker 2 (8m 13s): When you, it's published in 2010.
Speaker 1 (8m 14s): Boy, when you talk about something for everyone, how that has come to be even more true.
Speaker 2 (8m 20s): Absolutely. Th this was kind of the tail end of digital media being the dominant force. DVDs were still popular. But even if you look at, at what would've been in the video stores back in the eighties, right? You had feature films that sort of evolved into what we called couch porn or Gonzo porn. Right. It was a guy, a girl on a couch and red light district, anabolic, diabol, evil angel made movies that didn't necessarily have a narrative flow. So there were really a collection of scenes and how easy that was to chop up onto websites.
Speaker 1 (8m 52s): Right.
Speaker 2 (8m 53s): Because you don't don't need a beginning and an end. So they're, I don't wanna say just scenes, I don't mean to to downplay them, but Right. They're interchangeable. You know, you can certainly, if you're a producer, you and you shot 10 scenes in a month, you can pick the six you wanna put in your, in your DVD at that point. As opposed to seventies and eighties where you had a script, even if they were bad, even if they're a two page script, there was still some kind of a narrative. It definitely changed. And how things like clothing, body type, ethnicity, hair color became a theme to a movie.
Right. Right. That you wouldn't have had that in the eighties and all of a sudden in the nineties you've got, you know, redheads with glasses. Okay. Five redhead throw glasses on 'em. So that's for definitely for a smaller market, but for that small market, that's exactly what I want. Cuz that's what I like. Sure. And it's, you know, as close to customizable in 2010 as we could get now with only fans and things like that. You've got even more customization and webcams. Yeah. You can pick the webcam model you want and get the show you want.
Yes. So it sort of led us to that.
Speaker 1 (10m 3s): Okay. Yeah, absolutely. So Roger, how do you feel that the political climate has changed things?
Speaker 2 (10m 13s): I think that's interesting because I don't know that that politics has as much to do with porn as it used to. Again, because the themes of movie, they're not themes of movies. Right. In the eighties we had some, some political parodies and things. Now I think it's more the overall social movements. Right. Black Lives Matter certainly had an I impact on the industry. The, the major news outlets change the way they refer to certain genres of porn. It made people really think about minority representation, minority power in the industry.
Right. What is okay and what is not okay to depict, which, and, and a lot of people think it's common sense, but to an industry that is so appropriately concerned about censorship, especially coming from the outside world, we still live in a country where a good third would probably just assume porn was, was abolished. Yes. So you're, you were already starting behind in the game big time. The, the more people you offend, the more people you, you worry, you, your support whittles down.
So we're obviously concerned about that, but at the same time, are we reflecting our best selves out, out to, to the world? We we're still living in a world where no, you know, African American woman has ever won. Performer of the year at the major awards just never happened. Wow. Wow. And I think people took notice of that. A lot of places stopped labeling movies as interracial because, you know, in, in porn that means specifically black men with non-black women as opposed to what the word means, which, you know, two different races.
Yeah. So as a genre that kind of went away and when that happened, well certainly, I, I applaud the efforts. My, my fear has always been, if we're not careful, we're gonna end up having less representation because now you're taking away award categories that we're traditionally dominated and given to people of color. If you take that away, my, my fear and, and you know, I have an open mind. We'll see how we're doing a couple years into this, but a lot of, a lot of stuff that went away, I, I worry we're gonna end up having a negative effect.
Speaker 1 (12m 26s): Yeah. Yeah. That makes perfect sense. What is your favorite adult site?
Speaker 2 (12m 31s): My favorite site is I f d. Okay. Internet Adult Film Database. Just because everything that that's ever been put on VHS or DVD is there. Hmm. And it's not a porn site, but I use it daily to look up scene pairings to look up, you know, I'm, I'm still getting movies with people I don't know. I, I can find who they are. They're, they're bio lots of reviews. I read lots of those. So that's, that's my favorite site when it comes to sites to watch.
There's lots of interesting ones. I think most of the big production studios from the last 20 years, evil Angel, Jules Jordan, have created really great sites now. It helps that they have outstanding material, but they've also evolved and have great technical sites. They're easy to use. Lots of options. I like those I really like, and a lot of the same kinda stuff I like in dvd. Right, sure. Deeper vixen, they're, they're just so beautifully shot.
Yeah. That it ends up making for a really pleasant viewing experience. Whether, and and I, I still watch DVDs, but I watch them on my computer screen. So there's less of a difference now. Right. When I used to watch on a, on a 60 inch screen, the difference in quality E even the best quality didn't look great on that screen. Now with, you know, high definition screens, you really see the companies that, that put forth good effort. So I like those.
Speaker 1 (14m 1s): So you vote in the AVN and X R C O awards? What's that like?
Speaker 2 (14m 7s): It's a lot of work. Hmm. And let me just say this, especially for avn, I vote in, in the final phase, the Avian editorial staff goes through everything that's out there for a year and they whit it down to 120 or so categories, 500 or so nominees, which is a huge amount of work. Yeah. But getting it from the whole to that list, I think it must be two or three times is difficult. But then to get Sure.
Get to that like four week period we have between the nominees and when voting is due, it, it's a lot. There are times when I have four screens going at once. I try to re-watch every, even stuff that I've seen. I just to, to keep it refreshed in my memory. So it, it is a lot of work. It's, it used to be drive up to their offices and pull from shelves and literally, you know, a whole truckload full of DVDs. It's a little different now. A lot of companies will send like a zip drive.
Right. Or a lot of it's just, here's a, you know, a pass to our website. So it's, it's less boxes now. But the way both Avian and X rco work is once you get the ballot there, it's weighted ballots. So one through 10 who you put seven and eight matters in the overall score.
Speaker 1 (15m 26s): Oh,
Speaker 2 (15m 26s): Okay. So it's a little trickier than just picking first. And I take it really seriously. So I go through and make notes and as I go through a, a category, really try and, and do the best I can to make sure that I've covered everything. I usually make it with about a day or so before the deadline. And then I go back like, okay, I really gotta go back and, and rethink this or that. And then I usually try not to watch for about three weeks cause I'm just done.
Oh
Speaker 1 (15m 57s): Yeah. You must be cooked at that point.
Speaker 2 (15m 60s): Yeah. It, it, it's a lot Rios a little smaller and usually it's after Avian. So I kind of have an idea if like three of the same movies are in the same category. I remember how I ranked them before. So I've got a starting point. It means a lot to me. It always did when I was independent for 15 years before I got asked to do it, only the best got to vote in these awards. Yes. And so when I was asked to do it, it, it was, it was a big honor. And I've, I've treated it very seriously. I do, you know, the, the podcast and I have fun with it.
Yeah. I, I really do. It's one of the things that, you know, I get inspired to start a podcast series like this one where I actually talk to other people instead of myself. And what I wanna do is I wanna sit down with every adult critic I can find from the last 20 years and just hear their process and hear their thoughts on, on movies and how it's changed. Because I find that really interesting. Yeah. What makes, especially now with the technology, almost everybody has the ability to shoot something that looks good. And so what makes product A so much better than product B?
What is it, you know, is, is it artistic angles? Is it just a little more detail? Is it onset personality that brings out the best in performers? There's a lot of little things now that, that I've kind of, I kind of get caught up in and I, I still kind of geek out over this a little bit.
Speaker 1 (17m 20s): You talk about how porn has changed with the technology. Why don't you talk a little more about that?
Speaker 2 (17m 29s): Well, the delivery system, first of all has, has changed it dramatically. It's so much easier now for people to see it and view it and view it in small bites. Yes. I would imagine a third to a half of porn is probably watching now on a phone.
Speaker 1 (17m 45s): Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17m 45s): Where 10 years ago that would've been impossible to think about. Even if you told me half of porn was watched on a computer 10 years ago, I, I still would've been skeptical it was on TVs and ever, ever-growing TVs. And now it's just that much smaller and high-speed internet of course drove a lot of that. Oh yeah. Because I, I think we talked last time when I, you know, we used to have to wait 30 minutes to download a song. You know, forget a video clip it. But now you can livestream, you can livestream cam shows in Hi def that kind of technology puts it in your living room, your bedroom on your phone.
Very private and intimate in a way that wasn't possible before. Right. And you know, I, I'm, I'm impressed by that. You've got websites now that work with interactive toys so that Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18m 37s): Tell, tell adult ons. Right,
Speaker 2 (18m 39s): Right. Which, which is just absolutely mind blowing when I started 26 years ago. Which 26 years is a long time. But you know, probably most everybody listening's older than that. When I started it was a
Speaker 1 (18m 53s): VHS tape. Oh I certainly, I certainly am.
Speaker 2 (18m 56s): Right. So it was a VHS tape and a stack of those took up a big portion of your closet.
Speaker 1 (19m 2s): Yes.
Speaker 2 (19m 3s): And now you can store how many, you know, terabytes of, of porn on the, something the size of a wallet. So that's changed. The, the one-on-one social media, that sort of interaction, all that has drastically changed the industry and how people view it for the positive and for the negative.
Speaker 1 (19m 24s): Yeah, absolutely. So you talked about your annual AVN podcast. Why don't you get into a little bit of detail?
Speaker 2 (19m 33s): Anybody who sat through them. It's usually 14 to 16, 20 to 30 minute episodes. And I go through each and every category. We go over them. My thoughts, I have AVS blessing to discuss the process, to discuss my ballot. I usually don't say, here's who I voted for. I usually will look, here's, here's some people at the top of my ballot. I'd like it to be as interactive as possible. And what usually ends up happening is as we go over each category, then I upload the podcast.
I get some user feedback, either commenting on what we talked about or questions about certain categories. We go over the changes in categories. Cuz the categories change over time. Right. We used to have a lot of porn parody ca categories. Now those are gone cause nobody makes them anymore. That's true. And how drastically different, I still remember AVN when there was a best film and best video. So you so you actually had a separate category for shot on film. Yeah.
And now you, you've barely got four features to nominate in a year. Yeah. So it's changed. So that's the podcast. I, like I said, I I would like to incorporate other people, but right now it, it's really simple for me to strap on the, the headphones and just talk about it. And it, it's a lot of fun. And I'm usually wrong. Just so everybody knows, I'm usually not way off. You know, usually someone in my top five wins, but there are times when, and, and that's always interesting and humbling to me.
I I know that there's a lot of people I respect voting. Yes. A lot of people whose opinions I respect and whose values I think I share. And you just kind of wanna go, what, how did you guys miss it? Or how did I miss it? Which one of us is off? Because I didn't have that person even in my top five.
Speaker 1 (21m 25s): That's why you have, that's why you have a lot of good ears and eyes voting.
Speaker 2 (21m 31s): That's true. It's not just mine. So it, it's a lot of fun. I I like doing it. Like I said, I'd like to do a little more, a little more frequent podcasts. There's, there's certainly a lot of issues going on in the industry. And yeah, I haven't done interviews in a while because I don't really go to shows. Even before Covid, I'd kind of cut back on going to shows.
Speaker 1 (21m 50s): Yes.
Speaker 2 (21m 51s): But it's such a perfect opportunity to do an interview and this conversational style. This is how I used to interview people. Right. I didn't, I didn't like just reading my 20 porn questions. You know, I kind of wanted to, to go a little deeper. So maybe I'll start a, you know, a good star interview podcast.
Speaker 1 (22m 13s): That would be, that would be excellent. I hope, hope I've inspired you a little bit. So
Speaker 2 (22m 19s): I gotta work on the voice. You know, you, you blow me outta the water
Speaker 1 (22m 22s): With you. Your voice. Your voice is fine. Don't
Speaker 2 (22m 24s): Thank you.
Speaker 1 (22m 24s): Don't even, don't even, your voice is fine. I just, I just happened to be a former sportscaster and the voice is, voice is well trained, so don't, don't have voice envy because you shouldn't. So how did covid change porn?
Speaker 2 (22m 41s): I think it, it was one of those things that pushed us towards a new kind of content. A smaller, more intimate content. I think we were already going there with only fans because hardworking performers didn't have to leave the house and go to sets. When sets were shut down. They had to stay at home, get more creative, get more one-on-one time with their fans. And I think it's, it's turned a lot of performers into entrepreneurs and it's made the ones who are already in moving in that direction.
It's just skyrocketed them.
Speaker 1 (23m 16s): Yes.
Speaker 2 (23m 18s): And we've seen some covid themed stuff and it's mostly silly, but the fact of the matter is, for a year and a half when we were really shut down, you saw a lot of only fans, couples doing what they could do. And I think that attracted a certain audience. I definitely think people follow porn stars more now than they used to. And we talked in the last time about, I think the porn star has really faded a little bit compared compared to the glory days of, you know, wicked and vivid in, in those days.
But at the same time, the stars that people follow have, I think a more ardent following who have more access to them. They don't have to go out and look on the video shelves for, you know, if, you know, I used to go out and look for a Ginger Lynn or a Candy Evans movie, I don't do that anymore. Right. I can subscribe to Angela White's only fans and I'm gonna see everything she does. Right. So I think it changes the nature of being a fan and creates a more intimate relationship. And I think Covid forced that step. There weren't the same number of shoots as before, so it forced people to, to sort of get on, get on board the train that was already leaving the station.
So,
Speaker 1 (24m 28s): And a lot of performers decided they didn't need production companies anymore.
Speaker 2 (24m 34s): Absolutely. I I believe we talked last time about the, the difference in scale, right? Yeah. You wanna make a, a big movie, you gotta pay a lot of people. Right. You wanna put on some makeup and find your favorite toy. You don't have to make a whole lot of money back to make that profitable day.
Speaker 1 (24m 49s): Right. You can do it on your phone.
Speaker 2 (24m 51s): Yep. And that, that's that, that amazes me. Yep. That and, and it and it looks good. It looks better than the stuff we saw in the eighties that were shot on film cameras. Hell
Speaker 1 (25m 1s): Yes. The iPhones do an amazing job. I've seen some of the Apple commercials where they're showing movies get shot, supposedly get shot on an iPhone. And you absolutely can do
Speaker 2 (25m 13s): That. It makes me wonder technologically what's next.
Speaker 1 (25m 17s): Yeah, I'm, I'm ready. So what do you think comes next in terms of content?
Speaker 2 (25m 25s): I think we're gonna continue to see smaller, more intimate productions. We've already seen a lot of talent is doing content trades for each other's only fans or Right. Many videos cha channels or, or whatever it is. Again, it keeps production costs down. If you're a female performer, you can get a, a top end male performer to come shoot a scene. You both get to sell it through your own channels. It, it's really performer ownership and I think we're gonna see more of that.
I, I don't see how we can go back. I mean, I really don't because obviously physical media is dying out.
Speaker 1 (26m 1s): Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26m 2s): Much to my su much to my chagrin, I still buy DVDs and occasionally a cd I know I'm 110 years old,
Speaker 1 (26m 11s): But I do buy c I do buy CDs. I haven't bought an, I haven't bought a DVD in years.
Speaker 2 (26m 17s): I, I I still buy mainstream blueray, not often, but, you know, I bought the Batman had to have that even though as you know, my wife said, we've got hbo. It's, it's right there. Anytime you wanna watch it doesn't matter now I have this, I have this
Speaker 1 (26m 33s): You on a shelf, you wanna own it. You're a collector. I understand, I
Speaker 2 (26m 37s): Understand. I still buy books. I, I don't, don't think we're going back. No.
Speaker 1 (26m 40s): I use, I use my Kindle on my iPad
Speaker 2 (26m 42s): And, and I, I should, I should. I'm, I'm about 50 50 now. I'm getting better with, with books. But I, you know, I I grew up as an avid reader and having the book in my hand means something to me. And I know that that makes me old. But, so I don't think we go back. I I think that obviously the only business model, not to promote them necessarily, cuz I think somebody else will come along and, and fill that void. But that style where even when I, 10 years after I started, the big thing was every performer had to have a website.
Right, right. I, I don't think we discussed this last time, but I interviewed Jenna Hayes right before, right before she got big, she'd just done a couple of movies. Right. She's from Orange County and we went to Black Angus and I interviewed her and at the end of the interview I said, you need to go home and you need to get your website cuz somebody else will if you don't.
Speaker 1 (27m 37s): Yes.
Speaker 2 (27m 37s): And I waited three days, it was still available and I bought it and then I called her immediately and said, I told you to buy it, I've got it, it's yours, but I wanted to make sure you got it. And it was 10 years before she actually took ownership from it. Wow. Wow. But had, had I not done that, somebody else would've bought it under her. That was the big thing then. Now nobody's got their own website. They buy the URL to, to, to go toward their Twitter account or an only Fann account. Right. So that's their version of a website and it's a whole lot easier, you know, you don't have
Speaker 1 (28m 11s): To and it's, and it's a hell of a lot more profitable.
Speaker 2 (28m 14s): Absolutely. So I, I think that's where we're going and I think we're gonna continue to see more performers who never really get into the talent pool. The industry used to be a group of people and you know, famously back in the seventies, eighties, it was a small group of people, but then it was everybody that goes to Avian and it's the agents and the directors and the stars. And now I think you're gonna have people who now I'm shooting my stuff in Chicago and I don't, that's all I do.
And I think it's again, gonna change the nature of what being a performer is.
Speaker 1 (28m 50s): Absolutely. So how has the job of a porn critic changed over the years?
Speaker 2 (28m 56s): Oh, that, that's a great question because
Speaker 1 (28m 58s): I know cuz I asked it
Speaker 2 (28m 60s): Of course. And that's something that I ask my fellow X R C O members every year when we get together and talk about different categories and what we're gonna do for this show. What are we reviewing anymore? If there comes a time in the next two years when nothing's released on dvd, because right now, oh, there, I just grabbed a dvd. This is five scenes, they're all pov I'm sorry, four scenes, four scenes of pov. Right. That's it. These can be completely independent of each other.
The only reason they're together in a movie that I can review an award is cuz somebody chose to put these four scenes together.
Speaker 1 (29m 37s): Okay.
Speaker 2 (29m 37s): If they stopped with a dvd, those four scenes are gonna be four of 400 on that website for the year
Speaker 1 (29m 44s): Or 4,000 or 40,000 or 400,000.
Speaker 2 (29m 48s): So what am I reviewing? Yeah. The individual seems for sure. But how do we get that across to, to readers and listeners as to what is good or not? And Yeah. And I think as, as we, it's hard, as we chop everything into smaller bite size, I think the critic comes a little less important because when I started, there was a two and a half hour amount of time that you devoted to watching a movie and beginning and end mattered and how everything flowed mattered and how they use the talent.
Right. If you had a, a vivid movie and they had Ginger Lynn and she was in three scenes, that's good. If she was in two, that was less good if you liked her. Right. So I think that becomes difficult. I think reviewing, lighting, acting, all of those things becomes more difficult as what are the, what's the acting, you got three lines of dialogue, I think. But I think one of the biggest changes, and my fellow critics hate this, but let's be honest, people used to come to my site to save money.
Speaker 1 (30m 51s): Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30m 52s): Because it cost you a rental fee or a purchase fee if you were gonna buy a movie. And I got, I've got a lovely collection on an old hard drive somewhere of, of thank you emails. Thank you so much. I never would've found this gem had I not read your review or thank you very much. I'm glad I avoided seeing that I would've wasted my money on it. Yeah. So in that way, not me, but adult critics were important gatekeepers of what was good and bad, whether you agreed with us or not.
And, and I firmly believe, it doesn't matter if you agree with me or not. Right. What matters is you trust me because I had plenty of readers who said, good, you hate it, I'm buying it. Right. Just like a music critic, just like a regular movie critic. Yes. But now that it's mostly free of what value is a is is a review or criticism. That's
Speaker 1 (31m 41s): A good point. It's,
Speaker 2 (31m 42s): It's kinda like going to a restaurant. Do you care if it's great if it's free, you take a bite if it's bad. Right.
Speaker 1 (31m 49s): But
Speaker 2 (31m 50s): On some level, if you can go to a buffet for free, take a bite to something you don't like it, you throw it away, it matters a little less. Now it still matters to people who, who are looking for something good. But it's easier now to, and not even free. Let's say you sign up for one of these megabytes for 20 bucks a month. Yeah. If you don't like this update, there's 12 more. Right. You can move on. Yeah. So I think now the value of of being a critic is I'm trying to do things on a little larger scale.
How does it look as a whole? How does this fit with somebody's career arc And to try and be funny and entertaining. Cause if someone's gonna give me five minutes to read something Yeah. It better be smart. It better be funny. It better be entertaining. It better be something. Yes. Because if it's boring than what's the point? And that's kind of how I feel about good porn, about porn. I'd rather it be bad than boring.
Speaker 1 (32m 42s): So what do you think being in the AVN or X R C O Hall of Fame mean to performers, fans, and, and of course yourself.
Speaker 2 (32m 52s): I'm me a member of the X RCO Hall of Fame. And it means a ton to me personally because it was a peer voting. So to be voted in and, and again, you gotta remember where I came from in 96. I was a fan. I was writing for internet chat groups and completely on the outside. And to have my work valued means everything. The, the other writers on, on that list are people I look up to. So that means a lot to me. I'm always interested in what it means to performers because Rock and Roll, hall of Fame, baseball Hall of Fame, let's use those two examples, right.
Those are both outstanding groups of athletes and musicians. But the Hall of Fame are for fans. Right. You can go to Cooperstown, you can go to Cleveland and you can see the plaques and you can revel in the nostalgia. You can argue eligibility and who's better as a fan. We don't have that important. So the Avian Hall of Fame, the X R C O Hall of Fame, does it matter to fans? It it's a name, a list of names on a website. So it, it's a different thing.
And I think because of that, it has to mean something to the performer.
Speaker 1 (34m 3s): Yeah. Or in this case, the the critic,
Speaker 2 (34m 6s): The, the contributor. I, I think another odd thing for Hall of Fame in, in, in porn, in, in baseball. What, it's five years after you're retired. Yep. Before you're eligible. Okay. You're, you're probably done. If you're out for four years, you're probably not coming back. True. And Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I think it's 25 years after your first studio album. Okay. You're, you're established. Yeah. In, in porn. It's 10 years after you started and now lots of performers are still going strong at 10 years. Angela White's first eligibility year was right in the middle of her threepeat for Performer of the year, for goodness sakes.
Hmm. We're gonna put her on the Hall of Fame while she's winning. You know, it's kinda like you're gonna put Jordan in the Hall of Fame while he is winning MVPs. I mean, you could,
Speaker 1 (34m 47s): I've always kind of, I've always kind of been okay with things like that. I, I kind of think the waiting, the five year waiting period in baseball is kind of ridiculous. I'd say if somebody retires and they're clearly a hall of famer, whether they be Derek Cheater or whether they be, I'm sorry, Barry Bonds, he should be in, you put him in the hall right away.
Speaker 2 (35m 7s): I like that idea. And I, and I agree with you by the way, bonds should be in, it's, it's ridiculous that
Speaker 1 (35m 13s): You, my God, one of the best hitters of all time. And these writers don't get me started on these baseball writers. Oh my dear God, I had to deal with these guys in the press box and they're, they're bullshit. When I was in college working as an intern for the Giants, and all I can say is what a bunch of frustrated guys who never could play the game. And that's why they became writers and oh my God, just dealing with them on a daily basis wasn't enough of a pain in the ass.
And if you're in the Baseball Riders Association, you're holier than thou Well guess what guys? Your shit does stink. And Barry Bonds is a hall of famer.
Speaker 2 (35m 58s): Absolutely. And just for the record, adult writers are not an all like baseball writers.
Speaker 1 (36m 4s): I know.
Speaker 2 (36m 5s): We're not bitter and frustrated and can never be in the game.
Speaker 1 (36m 8s): I, well, I well aware. So what do you think challenges are that are faced by the industry moving forward?
Speaker 2 (36m 17s): I I think right now, one of the biggest is going to be banks. And Yeah. Having money controlled by people who don't like or don't trust the industry for whatever reason. You know, I, politics, there's plenty of Yeah. There, there's plenty of politics on, on both sides of this issue that make this, unfortunately
Speaker 1 (36m 37s): There's not enough politics on our side of the issue. That's true. That's the worst part.
Speaker 2 (36m 41s): So I think that's gonna be the biggest challenge is as long as somebody else can cut off the flow of, of funds, then it ruins this sort of new economy. Right. The new individual performer as producer. That, that depends on a trustworthy and reliable payment plan.
Speaker 1 (36m 59s): Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37m 0s): And that didn't used to be a problem. Right. You go, you shoot, get your check from an established producer and you're fine. Now the performers are more vulnerable to that and I think that's gonna be a big challenge. And then if DVDs go away and big studios go away, I think performers are going to face the challenge of how do they market themselves.
Speaker 1 (37m 23s): Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37m 23s): Right. Back in the eighties, women who wanted to do well on feature dance, dance circuits got themselves in a couple of porn box covers that promoted their dance careers. Hmm. Some Kim models wanna come out and do a couple of porn movies for a well-established company because you get yourself in a Jules Jordan movie or a browsers movie, you're gonna be in front of a lot more eyeballs. And I think that's gonna be the challenge. And I don't know exactly how that's gonna work. And maybe it doesn't have to maybe cause there's a lot of cam performers that do just fine.
They, they get their, their core audience. They do what they do really well and they're fine with it. And maybe that's what happens with performers. And then you just, word of mouth gets around, you do a couple of scenes with other popular creators and you, you build that way. But again, I think what will happen then is it's going to be those that are really smart about it and work really hard. Yeah. And it, it, it's gonna be more than just who looks the best on camera. It's gonna take a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (38m 23s): Yeah. You're absolutely right. And I think that eventually sooner than later, actually we're going to need, need alternative forms of payment that have nothing to do with, with credit cards. Look, in Europe, there's never really been credit card acceptance. And it's a small percentage. It's larger than it used to be, but it's still a small percentage of the overall way people pay for porn and for everything else.
So I think people are gonna have to start getting more creative in what they accept. And I think crypto's gonna be part of that.
Speaker 2 (39m 2s): And, and that's gonna mean a a whole lot of reeducation, you know,
Speaker 1 (39m 6s): Big time,
Speaker 2 (39m 7s): Big time. And you know what, you know, what'll happen then people will develop scams and, you know, it, it's
Speaker 1 (39m 12s): People
Speaker 2 (39m 13s): Like that are always one step ahead of the game. So
Speaker 1 (39m 16s): Unfortunately
Speaker 2 (39m 17s): Yeah. That, that's gonna be, I think the biggest challenge is finding a, a, a good income source.
Speaker 1 (39m 23s): Yes. Absolutely. What's your take on content-based censorship?
Speaker 2 (39m 28s): We mentioned a little earlier about how some of the things have changed after Black Lives Matter, some of the way interracial and, and racial play has changed in general. I think content-based censorship is, is really frightening. Not because I think everything is okay, but because I don't think I should decide what's, okay. I shouldn't tell you what you should watch and you shouldn't tell me what I can watch as long as everybody Sure. Involved is a consenting adult human being. Right. And those are three really important criteria.
Right. Completely consenting of age and human beyond that it's none of my business what role someone wants to play. If that is offensive to me or to someone else and someone is allowed to be offended and not wanna watch it. That that's perfectly fine. I, that's the kind of censorship I believe in. It starts with me and what I turn
Speaker 1 (40m 22s): On and off self censorship. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's called America. It's called the First Amendment. It's called Free Speech.
Speaker 2 (40m 28s): But when, you know, some of the, the clip stores took down certain types of content, specifically race play, which is fine. I have no interest in watching it. I don't understand it. Right. But, okay, so that can be taken away. But we all know how popular, you know, fest is also nothing that appeals to me. I don't trust anybody to make the censorship decisions for me. And I don't trust myself to make it for anybody else. And that's, I I I think we walk a scary line because if you say, well, this is offensive.
Really? Yeah. Okay. For sure. This is offensive to you, but you know what the prettiest, most romantic couples porn you could ever imagine in the last 30 years is offensive to that one third to one half of the country that finds porn
Speaker 1 (41m 15s): Offensive. Well, but you understand why those types of content are being taken down. It's being dictated by the banks.
Speaker 2 (41m 23s): Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41m 25s): And if that's your money flow, these companies are too scared not to take it down.
Speaker 2 (41m 31s): Yeah. And to me, and I don't usually, usually like slippery slope arguments, but I think it applies here because if, if it offends 10% of the population, we have to take it down. Well then what if it offends 5% of the population? Yeah. Or it just, it it
Speaker 1 (41m 46s): Feels like, but it seems to be offended by something now.
Speaker 2 (41m 49s): Yeah. I I just, censorship is what I do when I, I wa I choose to watch something different. I just, I fear a little bit because we do have so many legitimate attacks coming from outside that would Oh yeah. Take everything off the table. I used to find this one when I was starting out, there was a big difference between Vivid and Wicked and Evil Angel and Max Hardcore. It's like, yeah, there is, but at the same time, there isn't because the further back you get, we're all in this same bubble that people would be happy to squash.
Yeah. Regardless, it really doesn't matter to them which of these two is more extreme or more offensive.
Speaker 1 (42m 27s): Well, absolutely. And I didn't, I wasn't insinuating that what the payment companies are doing is right. I'm just saying that that's the reality that the sites have to deal with. So that's the situation. Now, finally, what do you think about the whole run Jeremy's situation?
Speaker 2 (42m 44s): I think it is incredibly sad. And this is something that's been talked about in the industry for a long time. And I'm gonna tell you, I've been around a long time, been around Ron. I wouldn't say we were ever close. I I never particularly liked his vibe. Just
Speaker 1 (43m 2s): I hear you.
Speaker 2 (43m 4s): But I never saw any behavior like, like what he's been accused of. Right. But Ex Biz did a great rundown of all the accusations and it's hard to read when, when you read.
Speaker 1 (43m 17s): I know. I saw that. And it was, it was just mind blowing. Oh,
Speaker 2 (43m 20s): It, it, it was heartbreaking too. And to realize this was going on and a lot of people knew about it. Sure. And I think, and I think some of it just the industry kind of played into to that sort of silly goofiness. And I think we allowed ourselves to turn our back on how someone can be powerful and popular and do horrible things just like mainstream Hollywood. Just like sports, just like politics. His story sadly isn't unique.
Speaker 1 (43m 51s): Not at all.
Speaker 2 (43m 52s): But the fact that it took so long in our industry kind of saddens me because Right. A lot of the shaming came from within our own community and this idea that because of who they are, they can't be assaulted. Yeah. It just, no, he's
Speaker 1 (44m 8s): No different. He's no different than Harvey Weinstein. Really?
Speaker 2 (44m 11s): Yeah. He, he really isn't. And I think it's kind of sad, he, he's probably never gonna stand trial for what he's done. And I hope knowing that at least he, he's in jail for probably the rest of his life can bring some closure to some people. Yeah. I think we're gonna see some, some books written about it. Oh, sure. I think, and I think we, hopefully we've learned from it.
Speaker 1 (44m 34s): I hope toxic masculinity is something that's going away.
Speaker 2 (44m 40s): I think everybody got caught up in, in his persona and the fact that honestly, probably the most well-known porn star for a time on the planet bigger than any of the, any of the women. Yeah. And part of that was, was goofing on himself and people goofing on him, but it didn't matter. There he is, he's in movies, he's in music videos, he's hosting events, and he got away with it because that's who he was. And I'll tell you, I, like I said, I never really stayed very close because I like his vibe, but I know a lot of people that I love and respect in this business who swore by him.
He's a, he's a great guy. He's a great guy. Yeah. You know, and it was like, but this and this, yeah. That, that's not true. Like, well now almost everybody has had to come around and say, yeah, he's, he's got some issues. Well, I think that's an understatement.
Speaker 1 (45m 29s): My, my dear old mother used to say, well, there's smoke, there's fire, and man, there's a, there's a forest fire around that guy.
Speaker 2 (45m 36s): Absolutely. Well,
Speaker 1 (45m 37s): Hey Roger, I'd like to thank you for being back with us again today on Adult Side Broker Talk, and I hope we'll get a chance to do this again soon.
Speaker 2 (45m 45s): Anytime. It's my pleasure. Thank you so much. My
Speaker 1 (45m 48s): Broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about converting traffic and improving your user experience. Make a good offer. If you're selling something and the offer isn't good, you won't make money. It's plain and simple as that. And if your offer is to contact you or to get more information, then make the offer attractive and easy to understand. If you're selling something, make buying easy. Show them an easy way to buy and then leave.
Help them by making suggestions on what to buy. amazon.com is the best at this. They always have suggestions on what to buy based on your buying and browsing history. They use AI to do this. There are AI engines available these days at a modest cost. Look into this if you can. Don't clutter up your site with unnecessary items, buttons and images. Keep it as simple as possible. The best and most successful sites are the simple ones. The ones that lead you to take the action you'd like them to take.
It's not that hard. Just remember, when you're putting together any site, try to think through the buying process like a human being. Whatever you do, don't turn over that process to your designer. Don't just say, build me a website. What you'll get out the other and will not give you what it is you're looking for. Give them as much direction as possible and make it easy for them to build a site for you that makes your business succeed. We'll talk about this subject more next time and next time we'll be speaking with Amy-Marie Merrill of The Cupcake Girls.
And that's it for this week's Adult Site Broker talk. I'd once again like to thank my guest Roger T Pipe. We're gonna take next week off for the holidays and be back again in 2023. Talk to you next time on Adult Siate Broker Talk. I'm Bruce Friedman.
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