This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with elite companion Amy Taylor. I’ll be at the TES affiliate conference in Seville Spain March 9th through the 11th. I’d love to sit down with you and discuss buying and selling sites. To book an appointment go to our website at adultsitebroker.com. Your first sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker and our affiliate program ASB Cash will pay you 20% of our broker commission. This can amount to tens and even hundreds of thousands of dollars. Check out ASB Cash.com for more details and to sign up. And we’re proud to announce our latest project thewaronporn.com. You’ll find articles on age verification laws and more on the industry’s plight in the war on porn and the numerous attacks on us. Go to thewaronporn.com and check it out. Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer a unique platform that bridges the gap between mainstream social link services like Linktree and adult content creators on platforms like OnlyFans. Their innovative approach combines a bio link with the ability to sell virtual gifts. They feature an impressive user base with a traffic volume of 250 to 300,000 visitors monthly. The site is also clean and solidly coated ensuring a smooth user experience. Maybe best of all, the site offers completely passive income. It operates with zero active management required. Plus there’s still high growth potential. With its unique positioning and strong organic traction, the site is prime for explosive growth. OnlyFans is exploding and this capitalizes on that trend with an existing platform, user base and traffic. Only $950,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker Talk is elite provider Amy Taylor. Amy thanks for being back with us on Adult Site Broker Talk. It’s so good to see you again. Thanks for having me. It’s great to have you back. Amy is an MBA, Mensa member and commercially licensed pilot who’s flown cargo charter and been a flight instructor. She’s been featured on and inside L, L official, Sports Illustrated, GQ, FHM, Maxim, Muscle and Fitness, Men’s Health, Women’s Fitness and Playboy. Now in her 40s, she’s just getting started. When she’s not in the skies or in front of a camera, you can find her staying fit, having fun with family and friends and generally just enjoying this gift called life in Manhattan or wherever life takes her. So Amy, how do you define the difference between escorting, companionship and other forms of sex work? Yeah, so as we talked about last time, in addition to all the modeling and the flying planes and the hyphenated career I’ve had, I have been a high-end companion, which is under the umbrella of sex work for fans who may or may not know that sex work was a legally coined term to try to give us a little bit more rights and respect. And sex work embraces a lot of people in a lot of different things. And my little sliver of it, I see escorting and companionship as a sort of distinct, slightly different focus and approach from other forms of sex work. And by other forms, I mean things like porn or webcam work or phone sex. Does anybody still do that? Or am I 40? I don’t know. They do. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. But each has its own unique aspects. All of them are sort of monetizing attention, affection, sexiness, all things I love. But the distinctions come down to the nature of the interaction. The service focus, the level of personal interaction involved either in the flesh or online or on the phone if we’re going back to phone sex. And in my experience, what makes high-end companionship what I have done unique is that it’s pretty multidimensional. Every interaction was bespoke. It was about creating an entire experience between me and my client. And for me, I had to be really adaptable to different environments, offering genuine companionship and being very flexible to provide within the limits of my ability and comfort, whatever the client was seeking, whether that was dinner or events, vacation, looking beautiful, being eye candy, arm candy. You don’t have any problem looking beautiful, by the way. Well, thank you. You know, I was given this face and body. I’ve tried to work hard to take care of it, done a couple of things to improve it. But yeah, I’m a sexy chick and I’m not sorry. And I like it. The ability for me to offer companionship with or without physical intimacy allowed me to tailor those interactions in a way that respected my boundaries and my client’s need. I tried to approach my work over the years. I’m in the sunset part of it, but on the occasion that I still go hang out with an old friend, which has become more rare, but I still, I’m human, I still like to date, but I approach it in a way that tries to balance the different aspects with my perspective on genuine connection, which is possible even in a slightly transactional nature. You know, you mentioned one thing that I found interesting. How often is it that you’re with a client where sex is not involved? You’d be surprised. It’s the majority of the time. I never slept. Well, for me, I can’t, I can’t say what was true for anybody else. I think some people are more sexual. I honestly had way more sex when I had civilian boyfriends than I ever did as a hindersquare. One of my clients, he’s passed away now, but he was a very famous person who had had some health problems and strokes and he was in no position to have sex with anybody. He just had tons of money and like pretty nice people and was happy to help supply for you because he had extra. He had no issue with helping me be safe financially. And honestly, they’re often paying themselves because then you have nice clothes and you have a trainer and you can have a nice apartment and things that they would want you to have if they like you. So that that was not, if anybody had ever said to me over the years, like, I’m paying you, I want sex, I would have left. And not only is that illegal and I would have to have left because in my country, it’s illegal. I don’t, I don’t think it should be. I think it should be completely legal to pay for sex as long as the person is consenting and you’re not hurting them. But in my country, except for in that, what, two counties in Nevada, you cannot. So I would not have agreed to that, nor did anybody ever try to say that or behave that way. And I think it honestly would have been a little weird and vulgar because at least in my country, there’s this idea that sex should not be so directly transactional. I think Americans believe it takes the magic out of it. And we can argue whether that’s sort of idiotic or not. But it is what it is in America. So I never, never was like, oh, I’ve got this money. Now I got to put out, I like sex and I like men. And then the clients that I met that I decided to sleep with, and they wanted to also, I never coerced anybody, not a rapist, they all wanted to, I slept with them because I liked to. I never felt that it was because of their wealth or their, or any kind of power imbalance. Perhaps that was cope on my part, but I truly didn’t feel that way. Now, I think we talked about in our last episode, but I grew up with a mother who didn’t work and her father who paid all the bills. My father was considerably older than my mother. So the model I saw of romance and love was of the man providing and the woman being sort of soft and feminine and beautiful. And so I didn’t, I didn’t ever think there was anything awkward about that because it’s sort of what I, what I knew that said, the reductionist thing, if anybody had ever been like, God, I paid now suck my dick. I would have been, I would have left. That’s a bit, I mean, that kind of takes all the sparkle out of romance. And I’m a pretty romantic person. I do need it wrapped up in respect and kindness. So if it was that reductionist, it wouldn’t have been for me. No judgment though. Some people like that and that’s cool. There’s places that can go for that. Sure. Great. I met some, a stripper who went to work in the legal brothels in other countries where she could work overseas and then she’d come back home every few months. And she very much liked just to know nonsense, having some sex and going home to her husband again. She didn’t want to be anybody’s date. She didn’t want to go on vacation with anybody. None of that. And that’s cool. To each their own. That’s to each their own. Yeah, we said that at the same time. Yeah. Well, it’s true, right? Yeah, absolutely. The democratization of all of it, like, you know, in the porn website world, we’re finding out that because now there’s a democratization of porn stars with like user generated content, all this UGC, we’re finding out that no matter what kind of age or body style or race somebody is, they’ve got fans. So we’re really learning that indeed it is to each their own. I mean, it truly is. Yeah, that’s a reflection of society too. Well, with less gatekeeping, we see more of that. Yeah, absolutely. It can be a tough landscape to navigate for clients of like, I paid you, if I do probably am attracted to you and do want sex, am I allowed to sort of ask for it? How much is it like regular dating where I have to be a gentleman? What about the legal ramifications where I cannot demand paid sex because in America, it’s not legal? Well, yeah, that’s a dance and it still is fuzzy. And you know, you just do the best you can not to hurt anybody and hope that there’s consent. And in my experience, there always was. Absolutely. Absolutely. So what is your role typically involved? Yeah, so I think I was, I mean, I probably have to ask my clients, but if I could analyze it, I provided a blend of companionship. I was a social presence at like concerts, games, dinners, vacations, skiing, scuba diving, tennis golf, you know, you name it, and giving very personalized attention. I was very focused on my clients, which is something that they lacked. They really enjoyed that I was devoted to them. And that felt authentic. And I really was for the time I was with them. That was my focus. I mean, it’s my job, frankly. Yeah, lots of formal gatherings, lots of charity stuff. And the reason I probably got picked for that is because I did go to college and grad school and sorority and debutant. I know which folk to use and all that garbage. So the essential nature of social adaptability in the higher class, I was born upper middle class, but I can, you know, dine with the queen if I have to, I do know how. So that was something that I was that was value added. And that was apparently not that easy for them to find a lot of escorts, you know, they don’t know how to crack a dungeon as crab. And I do. So that was lucky for me that some of my upbringing made me better at this job. I seem classy. I speak a certain way and blah, blah, blah. Like we were talking about off camera, I speak French and that made me seem classier than I probably am. And so I could engage in, you know, elegant conversation, which that helped these wealthy guys feel like I was more from the same cloth that they were. Even though I was not. Oh, don’t sell yourself short. Well, I mean, I grew up with a lot of class, but my father was a professor, so there was no cash. We were not rich, but we were classy. Sadly, not wealthy, but not broke either. I mean, but so they, and then the connection on a personal level, when I was able to find a handful over the years of people that I liked, it was very easy because I did truly like them. Now, would I have dated somebody with no strings attached, no future for marriage, somebody who was dating other people or even married for what I’ve done that for free? No, because that’s not fair to me. If I have to, you know, never know if they’re going to ever call me again, which, you know, luckily they always did, but there were no promises. That’s the job. Then I have to get something out of the deal because otherwise it’s not fair. That’s only fair. Well, otherwise I’m just going to get my heart broken by some rich guy. That’s not, and that’s not nice for why would I do that? And then big part of my job was to be non-judgmental. I will admit sometimes that was hard. I didn’t have a problem with being fully present. I’m old enough that I’m not addicted to my phone. That helped me. I heard from many clients that the younger girls were adorable, but they could not put down their phones. So I was able to make a living because that was not hard for me. So lucky being middle aged, but being non-judgmental, I mean, I met men who were committing financial crimes. I met men who were very mean about their wife’s weight gain. I met men who were pretty sexist because they’re from a very different generation. Sometimes not all. Many older men were lovely, but some of them were a bit, you know, old fashioned in ways that could be tough. But my job was to try to find a way to create a safe space that was non-judgmental. And I did the best I could at it. I tried to be empathetic as I asked them to be of my quirks and flaws. The romance part of it was easy. I love men. I love dating. I love romance. That was the easy part. Maintaining clear boundaries, my role, sometimes that was an issue because people have different compatibilities, you know. I once met a guy who was obsessed with my feet and that was fine, but that was a lot. I didn’t have the requisite skill. I wish he had let me know. I could have watched some YouTube’s or something. And in my country, unfortunately, the legal atmosphere prevents us from communicating clearly about expectations the way that they can in other countries. And so that reduces a lot of our ability to set respectful limits the way we could if my country wasn’t so idiotic towards sex work. Amen to that. Well, right. It creates fuzzy confusion that makes for... And so the way people navigate it is the first appointment is just kind of an audition to get to know each other. And once you trust things get far better. And that’s just sort of the way it is, I guess, fine, whatever. But I was a confidant. Many people told me stuff that I was surprised to even hear. I guess they felt some freedom in a person who’s not trying to be the wife, not trying to get a job, not trying to get them to do anything for me or my life. So sometimes they were pretty honest. And then obviously most of my role is that I’m an escape from their everyday life. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I am there to be happy, be pretty, obviously not say no to if they want me to wear a black dress or a garter belt and stockings or red lipstick or, you know, I do it. And honestly, I like it. I look great in that stuff. Why not? Yes, you do. Thank you. Thank you. It’s fun to cosplay femininity. It doesn’t bother me a bit. Big time. What misconceptions do you think people have about escorting or sex work and how do you address them? Well, it’s probably very much like your work. Well, except for the in person part that’s different. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah, a little bit. But I try lately to use my platform now that I’m pretty much on the sunset to challenge stereotypes. It’s starting to scare people I’ve known. I promise them I’m not going to out them, but I have the right to tell my story. And I’m going to because I think when people are totally unfamiliar with my industry, I think they felt the vacuum in their knowledge with nonsense. And that’s because most of us are closeted. We’re closeted because our clients want us closeted. They get very scared when we speak to the public. For some reason, they think we’re going to talk about, they think we’re going to like tell the public their names, which obviously we’re not, we don’t, but whatever. So we’re in the closet for our clients, which unfortunately creates a situation in which we can’t tell our truth. But when we retire, we can. And so some most of this, the misunderstandings are created by stigma. One of them is that one that it’s solely about the physical, that there’s no regard for personal connection or professionalism. And reality is multi dimensional. There is a lot of emotional connection. In fact, every single client I ever knew wanted it to be emotionally connected. All of them. 100%. And if they were both wrote and empty, none of them would ever call the person back. So it does require a lot of emotional intelligence, empathy, very strong interpersonal skills in addition to beauty and being sexy. It does require traits. And frankly, people who say it’s easy work, I would like them to try it. Most of them would not make a dime. Yeah. Another misconception is that we enter it only out of a lack of options. Yeah, that’s certainly not the case for you. Yeah. No, I had other options. This was the best one I chose at the time. And then I found out I was good at it and liked it and I stayed. It’s had its ups and downs, but it’s allowed me independence, financial control, flexibility, setting my own boundaries, defining my own schedule. And in the end, actually aligned with my values in ways that were surprising even to me. But even if the work is not empowering, it’s still work. And that is legitimate. That’s what people don’t understand about sex work. What? That it’s work. Yes. You don’t need to, they always ask us if we feel empowered. Well, I’m not sure in Manhattan tonight, all the guys cleaning up garbage, do they feel empowered or do they just know they’re doing something society needs and they get income and benefits and they can feed their kids. Sometimes it’s just work. And that’s okay too. But I was able to derive meaning like the garbage guy. My work isn’t always glamorous, but it is valuable. I saw value in it. There’s also, of course, the assumption that it’s inherently unsafe or risky. Well, 100% of the things that get unsafe and risky are because of their way that America treats it legally. We do the best we can to prioritize safety. We take precautions. We have our hidden communication websites and apps. We do the best we can, but they make everything harder. They just want us to die. They really, they just really want us to die. Unfortunately. Yeah. And they think it’s a cleanup job when they do, when we do get killed and we get diseases and they think that they can spite and punish their way into us not existing. And of course that’s wrong. It’ll never work. But America’s a very spiteful and punishment driven country. It’s odd that way. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah. It’s not an empathetic country. It’s a brutal country in which you are on your own and it’s a dream life if you are valuable, but it’s hell if you don’t get lucky in America. Have you ever felt like you were in personal danger when you were on a date? I mean, I left a couple of clients who seemed weird. I left a couple others who were doing drugs. None of them like wanted to force me to do drugs. They offered them. I don’t do drugs just because I thought it might end up unstable. Nobody ever tried to hurt me. The only people who threatened to hurt me were people that I did not see. So I felt in danger like online. Stocking. Yeah. Well, yeah, all that stuff. I get a hundred emails a day from people who say they want to kill me, but never by anybody I meet. And that’s because you can’t meet me without a full background check verification. If you’re real information and a deposit paid by a method that traces to your actual identity, I don’t accept any anonymous payment methods. Not the first time anyway, because I have to connect it to the actual person. So by the time I meet somebody, it’s also a location that they have to secure that has to be secured by their actual ID and credit card. I suppose they could still throw me off a balcony, but it’d be pretty weird because they would get caught. Wouldn’t help me. I’d be dead, but they’d at least go to jail. Yay. Sorry. More bit humor. I feel like they wouldn’t go to all that trouble just to kill some dumb whore. Like they’d probably go for an easier target, I hope. They say it’s like outrunning a bear. I just need to be faster than the next person. Terrible. Sorry. Not funny. I know. I thought it was funny. Thank you. But that’s the idea. You want to make yourself a difficult target so that the predators move on. That is actually true. Absolutely. So how do you navigate your personal boundaries? Well, yeah. So that’s part of it. That meeting me is very difficult. They all complain. I don’t care. Once I trust somebody, it’s of course far easier to get on my calendar. From the outset, I’m very difficult to meet. And that guides every interaction I have because in the end, I think it’s already kind of too good of a deal for them. They get a good, they get a strings-free date with no commitment, with a woman who’s, you know, gorgeous and fun. And they have to make my life feel safe or I’m not doing it because my life is worth more than their money. A few measly few grand, half of that after federal and state taxes, is not enough to get me to rest my life. The boundaries are very tight in the beginning. And then in terms of, you know, my mental health and physical connection, those boundaries are bespoke based on the relationship. And I don’t know that until I know the person far better. But there are things like, if a client’s, you know, seeing me, but he’s texting me all day every day, I’m going to have to reinforce a respectful professional relationship because I just simply can’t be his nonstop text attention every day. And I have, I have encountered that. And that’s, and I’ve even had to enforce that boundary with people who hire me regularly. Now, of course, if they’re not paying me anything and they’re texting me all the time, then they just get blocked. But yeah, the, it’s not, I don’t think boundaries are, are walls. They’re about maintaining a dynamic that shows that I respect myself and, and actually that I respect them. So, and because my work can be psychologically demanding, I do a lot of like self care. I love the day spa. I love the gym. I love to go to the park and walk my dog and not talk to anybody for a while. You know, New York’s a noisy, loud city. So sometimes I have to decompress from just life here. And then of course, I have a pretty serious support system. My friend, my friends, my family who respect me and my choices, even if they don’t, even if they don’t like them, they, they try to love me. Those things allow me to recharge, which allows me to provide a more genuine and fulfilling experience for my clients so that my clients are happier. So what role does emotional connection play in your work and how do you manage those relationships professionally? Well, I think it’s a significant part of my work. I think it adds the depth of interaction. And I’ve seen that clients also believe that I suppose we’re all saps who like it dressed up and can in some degree of emotion, which I don’t think is a bad thing. Yeah, they want a girlfriend who also understands it connects with them. And I want that from my clients that they are not just a wallet to me and I am not just a body to them. You know what, maybe they’re lying, but I’m not lying. I do see them as more than just a source of income. That’s good. Well, it’s what I, it’s what I need. Because I think it, I think it separates you from many other sex workers. Well, and no, again, no shade if that’s not what people want. I know some people love anonymous stuff. They find that exciting and, and that’s cool, but that doesn’t work for me. Is it healthy to combine emotion and income? Maybe not, but it’s, it’s the only way I can do it. And I won’t apologize for that. It’s the way I, again, I’m a pretty romantic type of a person. So I have found people who are that way also and we match. And so I am genuinely present and engaged. The wires haven’t ever gotten crossed. I’ve never wanted to like try to be with a client outside this work, but I actually do know hundreds of retired companions like me, who several of them are married to former clients and some of them are a decade or more in and they’re quite happy. So it can jump the broom into something else and that’d be cool. You never say never, I guess. I think that happens a lot. It happens a lot here in Thailand with sex workers getting married to clients. Well, it’s someone who understands, doesn’t judge. They’ve done it too. You both have funny stories. I mean, you can relate, right? Yeah. Yeah. My role is not that of, I’m not the wife. I’m not even actually the girlfriend and I’m not the therapist. So I do sometimes have to remind myself that while we share really meaningful moments, my clients and I, it is important to keep my emotions separate, you know, not totally fall in love, not, you know, sometimes they want to use you as a reference and you feel like, want, want, you know, what doesn’t he call me? Was he, but those are the rules of the game. And so it’s important to maintain those boundaries, but also let your heart be open enough that it’s fun. And that can be, that can really be a dance for sure. Absolutely. How do you balance your personal life and relationships with your work life, especially considering the nature of your profession? Yeah. There are people that I am still in the closet with. I don’t think that they would be comfortable. And so I have to choose what I reveal and what I don’t, which is a shame. But I think we don’t all have to reveal everything about our lives to everybody. That’s fairly normal. I don’t run down the streets screaming, I love whores. I think they’re great because not everybody needs to hear that. And you know, part of my life is an aviation, which tends to be a pretty conservative world, although many of them are clients and I know several that are sex workers, but it is important to sort of have some boundaries between my different roles, which is, I think, normal for all of us. We’re not, you’re not the same person with your parents and your kids and your sex partner and your neighbors. I do have spaces in my life, hobbies and interests that are entirely separate from Amy Taylor. And I think that helps. I have made the mistake and shared details of Amy Taylor with people and later regretted it. I was looking for openness and honesty and sometimes that has backfired. Those relationships are over, but sometimes people don’t fully understand or accept this work. I think some of that’s changing in the world, but luckily my closest support network is respectful and relatively non-judgmental and loves me in spite of all my nonsense, which is a, is a grace that I don’t deserve and can’t repay. So this is kind of related. How have societal attitudes towards sex work impacted your experience in the industry? It’s a complex landscape. There’s still a lot of stigma, you know, where there’s stereotypes and misconceptions. They don’t reflect the true nature of what I do. It’s odd to me. It’ll never not be, it’ll never not be odd to me that people are sort of fascinated by porn and sex work when everybody also fucks. Like, dude, all of you listening, you’re all here because your mom took dick. Relax. Sorry. But your mom took a big fat cock and that’s why you’re alive. Sorry. I know you all don’t want to hear it, but that’s, she was young. That’s good. And every, so, but we all fucked. I mean, probably most of us. So that is weird. That will never not make me laugh that people are so concerned about the sex life of others when it’s pretty much something everybody does. So the secrecy necessary because of stigma can indeed create a sense of isolation and it can feel like I’m living a double life, which is annoying. It can complicate personal relationships. And then when you have to lie, it can be stressful because you can’t remember what you said and people might think you’re crazy. You’re not crazy. You just can’t remember what you told who to. And sometimes it’s easier just to talk to them less, which I hate that, right? I hate getting marginalized and having a lack of support that deters me from being closer with people. I think it is changing slowly, but, you know, the lack of support still deters us from like, I just talked to somebody today who this bad client from Queens is running around strangling and ripping off escorts and no one will go to the cops about him because they’re all afraid of getting arrested. This guy was one of your clients. No, I never met him, but he tried. But I went to our little private, our, we have little private back channel communities and he’s been choking out and robbing other escorts. Now he would never get through my screening because the problem is that nobody knows his real identity because others need income and are willing to see guys without knowing who they are. They don’t have the privilege. I am lucky to enjoy, right? They need money so they, they can’t turn everybody down like some of us are lucky to be able to do. So he’s getting away with harming people and I want him in jail, but the society, the stuff hasn’t changed enough for us to just go to the police like we can in other countries when there’s somebody killing people. So maybe, maybe they will, but I would go straight to the cops and be like, if you’re going to arrest me, fine, but I’m going to go after this guy anyway. But I’m too feisty, right? Well, somebody needs to, you know, I mean, the guy’s killing people. That’s what I told this woman. I said it’s a misdemeanor at most in the DA and men, at least in Manhattan borough. He’s not going to prosecute you, but they don’t care. But I think you should. But you know, some of them are undocumented. Some of them have other criminal activity they’re involved in. You know, it’s a really complex landscape. And you know, the unfortunate part is it’s not a priority for police. No, I mean, 99% of sex work is totally no big deal. It’s a date. So there’s nothing, there’s nothing to prioritize. But when there is harm, I mean, you’re right. Some of the, some of the harm of like women getting choked out on date, actually that’s happening on Tinder and Bumble and do, right? It has nothing, it actually has nothing to do with sex work. So and sometimes these things are complicated. There’s drugs and alcohol involved. But what I’d like is that it continues to change and will get to a world that respects and values my work as legitimate profession, which is what you sort of see in Australia and Canada and New Zealand. They’re still haters, but it’s much better than what you see here. I think in Thailand, that even though they, they struggle with problems associated with it, they’ve decided that these are humans worthy of respect and they’re trying to make it safer and better. Yeah, they’re, they’re either trying to decriminalize him. I think they’re handling it far better than America’s. Oh yeah. I’ve met many of the sex workers in Pat Pong and these women are, they’re supporting their whole families and it’s the best option available to them. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, it’s either make $50 a month or, or make a couple hundred a day, you know, right? I love when the rights to rescue abolitionists come after us. I mean, we talked about this last episode, but when I got arrested in the beginning, Tom Giffin and his buddies at Orange County Police, they offered me a job to being a house cleaner for minimum wage. Oh nice. Now I mean, right? Mm-hmm. Thanks a lot. Didn’t recruit you for Walmart, I guess. Fuck out of here. So yeah, so it’s, it’s changing, I hope, but you know, it can always go backwards, right? I mean, Iran used to have women having a lot of freedoms and look at it now. So you never, yeah, well, you never know which way things will go in the world. So how do you think the attitudes are changing in the state? Well, I mean, I think a lot of people are fighting hard. I mean, what’s her name is, did an off-Broadway show, a horse-eye view. What’s her name? Caitlin Bailey. She’s lovely and she’s doing a lot of work and Mr. Smites in Seattle is speaking to legislators and he’s a legislator in San Jose, California, who’s trying to introduce bills that give sex workers rights. Nice home base for me. That’s good. Yeah, I mean, right Bay Area, warriors and 49ers and giants. But I mean, you know, I’m an East Bay girl at heart. So I think that, you know, the Bay Area, you and I come from a place that has always been California as a whole, but very much San Francisco has always been the bastion of progressive talk, compassion, tolerance, freaky weirdos who thought that they could make life better and more diverse. And I will, my heart will always be in the Bay Area because Manhattan is not so different. But you’re going to have problems if the Giants ever play the Yankees in the World Series. Of course, as bad as my Giants are, that’s not likely to happen anytime soon. So well, look what the Yankees just did. They just handed it to the Dodgers. We’re not talking about that here. We’re just talking about it. That was fucked up. I don’t think they did anyway. Embarrassing. That’s the real crime. I’m just kidding. Exactly. So what does empowerment look like for you as a high-end escort or a companion model? Well, my job is, as we talked about, not always empowering. Sometimes it’s just a job. But I do kind of sometimes feel empowered in that I own my choices. I set my boundaries. I create authentic connections, but I work on my terms. I control my narrative. I decide who, the type of experience, how I navigate each interaction. I never met anybody who wasn’t nice to me, and maybe they were acting, but I don’t care. They had to be nicer. I was leaving. And same. I was nice. I wouldn’t have ever been anything but to them either. But being able to say no to work and being able to, frankly, being able to get paid enough that I could survive and pay my bills and be safe did reinforce my self-worth. Being poor before I started this work, so poor that I could barely buy groceries, that took away all my dignity. There is no dignity in extreme poverty. So I felt very self-respected. And I felt able to approach my work with positivity and integrity. And when I couldn’t, when the match wasn’t great with a client, I felt okay denying it and sending them elsewhere to somebody with whom they matched better because they deserve that. Just because I wasn’t right for somebody doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with them. It’s just not a good match. So I do like the presence and empathy and emotional intelligence my work allowed me to provide. And I’ve had clients pass away now because I’ve been in this work for over 20 years. And I know that my work was one of their fun memories. And even if it was just for a short time, I know that I’d put a smile on people’s faces and I like that. That’s awesome. What challenges do you face in maintaining your privacy and security both physically and emotionally given the high-profile nature of your work? I mean, you’re not hiding. Well, no, I got outed. I think we sort of talked about that in the last episode. If I got outed by a pimple, I wouldn’t work for David Elms, the derotic review guy. So I lost my privacy over a decade ago. That ship has sailed, which sucks. I would rather still be able to lie. But I can’t. And so I’m trying to make lemonade. And everything people want to say to me about how much I suck. Well, I’ve heard it already, so go ahead. But privacy is different from safety. I will never live in a place that doesn’t have doorman, gate, guard, cameras. A lot of people live that way, even if they have never been in high-end escorts. So I do have to be proactive in the way that I live. Frankly, in any big city in the world now, you’re on camera everywhere. So if somebody wants to come harm me, again, it’s pretty tough. But I suppose it could happen. I can’t worry about that every single day. You know, PIMEye’s is here and visibility is here. If you wear Google camera glasses and you look somebody’s face up in PIMEye, you now can find out exactly who they are. I mean, the Terminator thing, it’s here. What can I do? Wear a mask and sunglasses everywhere I go? I suppose I could. But we are effectively all celebrities now. If you’re going outside and showing your face, people can now find out who you are. I think privacy is over for all of us. And you just have to navigate that and hold your head high. And you know, somebody very wealthy and powerful once told me, "Try not to make enemies." Because at least then when people know you’re dirty laundry, they don’t want to hurt you. I’m not sure I’ve succeeded at that, but I’ve tried to be kind. Because then, at least maybe... Do your best. Well, but we’re all going to... Look, all of our backgrounds are on data aggregators that anybody for 20 bucks can look up every house you’ve ever lived in. They can look up your mortgage payment. I mean, there is no more privacy, which for any of us. And I’m sure when you reject a client, that that gives you a real good chance of becoming their enemy. Yeah, there’s a few who’ve been very angry. I try to not be too bitchy. That’s I’ve made mistakes that way, being a little too feisty. But yeah, I had a guy went show up at my house with a clear Ziploc bag with a bunch of condoms in it. He told my doorman. He’s like, "Oh, I’m going to get a big old whore. She’s going to need these." Yeah, it was before I got outed. So I just told the doorman, "Oh, it’s this guy dated and he doesn’t mean literally a whore. He just means that I’m like a slut." And they didn’t really care. They’re like, "Oh, it’s just some angry guy." But yeah, I mean, I’m a woman living in the world. Who dates men. I’m well aware that when you go on a date with a man and you’re alone, he can kill you with his bare hands. And the reverse is not true. When you are a woman alive in the world dating men, you live in constant danger and it’s just part of your existence. So I do the best I can. It was better in California when I could own a firearm. I don’t now. Hopefully you’ve got mace or something. Well in New York, we just call for a gun because there’s cops in like, there’s a cop every five feet here. So there’s so many cops in Manhattan. So instead of having a gun, yeah, no propellant gases are not legal here either. Pepper spray, pepper, well, that doesn’t mean people don’t have them, but they’re not legal. But as they say, sometimes you’d rather catch a case than be dead. So there’s the law and then there’s what people might do. No comment. So yeah, I mean, but as much as you say I’m not hiding, no, I’ve never once posted where I am real time on the internet. Look, PIs, I mean, for $2,000, I can get pictures of you in your bedroom if I want them. Not that I do. Don’t worry. I don’t. I wouldn’t want to do that to you. Yeah, that’s what I’m doing tonight. So you better pose. Just kidding. That’s a joke. But I mean, look, if somebody really wants to learn all about you and stalk you from my previous experience, they can. And I cannot live in constant PTSD about it. So I don’t share every single detail and I do some of what I say in like broadcasts is just a little bit tweaked. It’s true, but it’s tweaked a little to not compromise my safety. That’s good. How do you navigate issues like stigma or legal risks that might arise from being involved in the industry that you’re in? Yeah. Well, as we said, if anybody ever said I paid you, can I have sex? Then the answer is no. And I would leave and they can never meet me because that’s illegal. Again, I think it should be legal, but until it is, I cannot do that and I cannot agree to that. I think the legal laws in my area, although the DA in New York City said they literally are not interested in prosecuting prostitution cases. So it’s effect. It’s effectively decriminalized, but it’s not on the books. And I don’t think conservatives will let it become an official law ever. Well, ever is a long time. Your lips to God’s ears. I mean, I would love that. We have the first woman running for president who has actually said we should look at decriminalization, but I don’t think she can get it done. Politicians can say a lot of things. They can never get done. But I like the idea and I should say that we’re actually recording this two days before the presidential election. Oh, please God. Yeah. Well, so by two years, the world might be over. Please, yeah, the world could be over in two days. Comma, please win. But then we’re going to be running this early next year. So anyway. So you’ll be listening to this when you’re cooking possum over the trash can fire during the Civil War, people. Yeah. Just kidding. I hope. She may not even believe that she might have been saying it to get the votes of the wild young kids who are in sex work. I don’t really I don’t know the woman. Well, she’s a she’s a former she’s a former prosecutor. And I’m sure the thing that she liked prosecuting the least were busts of prostitutes. So I hope so. I mean, they were not they are not nice to us and they ruined my life. I’ve lost jobs and opportunities and housing and relationships because of what they did to me in Orange County and I will never forgive them. So fuck you, Tom Giffin. If you’re listening to this, you’re probably not. But times change and it’d be great if it changed. That said, how do I navigate it? I just try to stay within the law. But on the other hand, I truly believe and my lawyers and I talk about this a lot that the state does not own my body. It does not tell me who I can fuck or when or why as long as the other person or persons yes, I’ve had group sex and it’s fun. As long as everyone’s consenting and I am not coercing, which I never have everyone I fucked was quite willing. Then I know state no church and no asshole is going to tell me what I can do with my own vagina yet. Well, right. No, you’re not kidding. I mean, I’ll just break the law. I mean, I’m sorry, but I’m not I’m not living like that. So in terms of like navigating, you know, whether the sex I’ve had is legal or not legal, like I maintain that no one has ever coerced me because they were wealthy and bought me a purse or not. I never had sex with anybody when I did not want to. And if you were concerned about women having sex when they don’t want to, then you would abolish marriage because wives are having a lot of sex with their husbands when they don’t really want to. Husbands are sometimes having sex when they don’t feel like it. So if your concern is with people having sex without really being into it, well, I mean, what are we talking about? Society and a relationship has done that sometimes because they might love the other person and the other person’s horny. It’s called compersion. We all do it. Yeah, it’s a legally stupid landscape. And then stigma of like, well, I do a lot of things women don’t do. I fly planes and I’ve shot guns and I’m single and childless and happy that way. So I’m pretty used to stigma. Thanks calling me some kind of witchy weirdo. And I don’t care. I honestly don’t care anymore. I literally don’t care. Yeah, I don’t care what people say about me either. Which is beautiful. Like, did it take you a while to get to that state? Like was it hard in the beginning? A long, long time. It was for me. A long, long time. Were you in the closet for a while? Like I was or no? In what respect? Like, did you not tell people the full nature of your work the way that I didn’t? I don’t think I ever did. No, I’ve always been pretty open about it. And if somebody doesn’t, I mean, if I’m talking to somebody I don’t know, I’m still kind of cautious depending on who the person is. But as far as people I know, oh shit, they know me. They know I’ve done bizarre things throughout my life. So it’s not really that important. I mean, here I am living in Thailand, right? And everybody’s like, yep, that’s Bruce. You’re not wrong. The women are beautiful. The weather’s perfect. The food’s good. Why would you, you’re winning at life. Yes, I am. Yes, I am. And yeah, for me, like no one was shocked that they were like, oh, Amy’s a little bit of like a gold digger. Like no one was surprised. I was beautiful and young and broke. I mean, it wasn’t exactly a shocker. Gee, there you go. We talked about what’s rewarding for you in your job. What are some of the more difficult or challenging parts? Well, as we talked about the stigma is probably the hardest part. But also being fully present and emotionally available can sometimes be draining. Like if I’ve had a bad day, but I have, I’m about to go meet a client for dinner. I can’t have a bad day, right? Yeah. And if they’ve known me for years, I might be able to mention something. And in fact, they might sort of like the humanity of it that I’ve joked. But in the end, I am there to serve. And there’s a limit on which, on how much I can bitch about whatever nonsense is in my life. In the end, I am there to be there for them. And I do have to remember that. And actually, I usually escaping my own stuff and serving them is sometimes an interesting coping mechanism. Forgetting for a few hours or a couple of days is actually not always a bad thing. As I said, yeah, the judgment of people who don’t understand can be frustrating. It’s still, it’s never not going to make me mad. And then as you brought up like the vigilance with, you know, the visibility that social media brings, every time somebody that didn’t know finds out, that’s always awkward when they, you know, ask me crazy things like, am I like trafficked or a drug addict or, you know, abuse victim? That’s time consuming and silly. Navigating legal risk because I work all over the world can be uncertain and stressful. Sometimes it’s scary during travel. With facial recognition in airports now, I sometimes feel paranoid, like, is that ever going to harm me? I don’t know. So far, so good. But not going one. Well, I’ve heard Canadian companions get stopped at the American border because America identified them as escorts and they weren’t even coming here to work. They were just coming to like have a vacation and America said they could not come in. Oh, shit. Yeah. So I, I worry a lot with facial recognition, but I have to continue to try to have self-respect because what else can I do? So my therapist makes a lot of money off me. Yeah, absolutely. So how do you choose and build relationships with your clients? Yeah, I mean, it’s kind of intentional. There’s trust is the big one. They have to make me feel that my life is safe because that’s priceless. It’s better if we have stuff in common. So as I go through screening their life and reading the internet about them, running a background check, looking for things that are deal breakers like violent crime or like a refusal to pay their bills, because those are those both could bring me drama. But if they had a DUI 10 years ago, I don’t give a shit. Who in this world doesn’t at least deserve one? I mean, right? If he hasn’t, then he’s no fun. And anyway, everybody Uber, so who cares? But they, yeah, initial interactions. We talked off air about like the way that they speak and write and email or the way they act on a phone call helps me gauge his personality. And if it seems respectful and nice, then it’s a good sign that they’re going to value me and the experience and we’re going to have fun. So then I’ve been pretty spot on about judging them and finding the ones that are going to like me and I’m going to like them. It’s pretty obvious. If they lie to me about anything even once, then they’re banned forever. I don’t go back on that decision because I don’t believe that somebody who thinks that their need to lie is more important than my need to stay alive could possibly be a good person. They say things like when they get caught lying and they beg for forgiveness and I never go back on my decision, but they say things like, well, I didn’t know if I could trust you. And my response is, look, I have like a 20 year internet footprint. Like what do you mean you couldn’t trust me? I didn’t build a million dollar website to like run off with your measly thousand bucks, you weirdo. There if they don’t trust me, then they’re either stupid or they’re lying and either one doesn’t work for me. So it’s pretty good the way I’m doing it to to end up with positive enjoyable experiences. Then yeah, for long term clients, I mean, I just spent a week with one that I’ve known for 18 years and it’s, yeah, he’s wonderful and it’s been as our lives have had these chapters kind of like we see each other every few months and it’s, I adore him. I really do. But I have to remember that when he’s a very busy guy, kind of a workaholic and he doesn’t like to be bothered in between, the hardest part of that interaction is remembering that while I’m his girlfriend for the week, I am not his girlfriend, right? Because he’s rich and successful and he’s my age and he’s attractive. And so frankly, I would probably be lucky to date him. I’m not trying to, but it’s he who does not want to anything beyond transactional relationship we have for his own personal reasons, which is cool. It’s all good. It’s all good. Yes. He’s the boss. One more question. When will you know it’s time to retire? Gosh, I thought I would have already. Honestly, I can’t believe they still call. I didn’t, I mean, people tell you as a woman that like you’re going to be dried up and thrown out when you’re like 28, maybe not 28, but like 35 for sure. So, you know, if nobody is calling for a certain period of time, then I suppose it’s over, but I still get like a hundred emails a day. So apparently people like old ladies. Who knew? I don’t know why you’d have to ask them. And of course I joke about that for sure. If nobody calls, then I don’t have a business, which is fine. Then it’s over. But I also will quit if I find it not fun. If I find that I can’t make people happy, I don’t want to take people’s money and not provide fun experiences. It has to be worth it to them too. But I mean, could you see yourself doing this in 10, 20 years? I mean, I knew a legendary one captivating Corey. She unfortunately just passed away last year and she was 64 and stunning. She’d had a lot of work done. So I guess. Well, but she was very skilled apparently. I didn’t get to meet her. I wish I had, but I knew three or four people who had met her over the years and they said she was legendary. And her client base, she lived in Florida, so she served a lot of old dudes. And her client base did not want a kid. They wanted a mature woman. Then there’s something for everybody, right? There’s some horses for courses. So she was still going strong at 64. I don’t, I don’t know that I will be, but I’d like to continue trying to make it a little better for those coming after me because even if you hate this industry, folks, and look, I’ll grant you, there’s lots of problems with it. I don’t deny that, but I just want them to not, you know, almost get murdered by a pimp like I did. I want them not to get arrested like I did. I want them not to have to leave in fear because a client seemed crazy. Like I had to leave hotel lobbies a couple of times with them. I want it better for those coming after me if I can do anything. So I think I’ll focus on that for a while and then maybe do, do the retirement quiet life and probably date. There’s a vibrant dating community in old people. It’s going to be hard to find somebody who’s okay with what I’ve done, but I know other women have, so I don’t think it’ll be impossible. You’ll do fine. Well, Amy, I’d like to thank you for being back with us again on Adult Site Broker Talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon. Yeah. Bring your crew and come to New York sometime. You know, I just might. My broker tip today is part one on how to buy a site. The first question to ask yourself is what kind of site would you like to buy? Would you like a tube site, a cam site, a dating site, a membership site, a social media site, or something else? If you want to buy a membership site, what type of site do you want and in what niche? There are literally hundreds of niches and many sub-niches. For instance, let’s say you want to buy a gay site. Under gay, there’s bears or mature, bearback, Asian, Latino, amateur, bi, black, Euro, and fetish, along with many fetishes under that classification. Plus there’s hardcore, jocks, porn stars, solo, trans, twinks, and uniforms. Straight has even more sub-niches. I can’t tell you how many people contact me and just say, "I want to buy a site," or "I want to buy a pay site." I need more information than that. How you make this decision should be based on these factors. What interests you? What you enjoy should definitely play a part in what you buy. If you like men and want to make money on a straight site, that’s probably a really bad idea. Same thing if you’re straight and want to buy a gay site. So what you’d like plays a part. What’s your budget? This is something you need to establish at the very beginning. Not only do you need to know what it is you’re working with, but some classifications of sites are more expensive than others. For instance, if you want a cam site with any traffic or revenue at all, you’re going to need a lot of money. In fact, to buy any established and successful site will be somewhat expensive. If you buy a site that’s pretty much just a platform without traffic or sales, you’re going to need a huge investment to build it up. In that case, it might actually be as good or better just to start your own site. That way you get exactly what it is you’re looking for. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be speaking with Dominic Hurram of Tantum Pay. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Amy Taylor. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] . [BLANK_AUDIO]
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