This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Walter Hasencleaver of the Venus Festival. I’d like to invite you to check out one of our projects that we’re very proud of, the waronporn.com. You’ll find articles on age verification laws and more on the industry’s plight in the war on porn and the numerous attacks on us. Go to the waronporn.com and check it out. Adult Site Broker has launched a new website at adultsidebroker.com. The attractive new site is easier to navigate and now includes this podcast and site of it. Check it out at adultsidebroker.com. Finally just a reminder, we’re always looking for buyers and sellers of adult sites. Perhaps you’ve been thinking about either selling your site or buying one. Always feel free to contact me at adultsidebroker.com with any questions you may have. Now time for our property of the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer a network of reality interracial hardcore porn sites. The main site features amateur girls as well as some porn stars. Scenes are shot in public places in beautiful Miami. The other sites are feeder sites for the main site with niches like Poggs, Wives, Cumshots, BVW, twerking and blowjobs. The company has been in business since 2013. They shoot in a true reality style that’s resulted in some of the most viral adult videos in the last decade. With the right owner, marketing and affiliate program, there’s a tremendous opportunity to grow even more. They currently have over 400 scenes. DMCA is managed very carefully, resulting in minimal content piracy. Much of the network’s revenue comes from Pornhub, ManyVids and Shear, but the site itself is growing rapidly. Only $432,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker Talk is Walter Hossenklever of the Venus Festival. Walter, thanks for being back with us on Adult Site Broker Talk. Thanks for having me again. What’s the pleasure last time? Yes, I agree. Walter has been advising small and large companies on all aspects of communication for more than 22 years. After studying political science and working for well-known PR agencies, he founded his own agency in 2014. He does his work with passion. He’s been the press spokesman for Venus for 15 years and is responsible for all communications. The Venus Festival has been presenting trends and innovations from the erotic and lifestyle sectors every year since 1997. With over 250 exhibitors from 40 countries, it’s the largest international trade fair of its kind. In the exhibition halls under the radio tower, producers and wholesalers present their services and products from the fields of fashion and pleasure products. They take advantage of the attention of more than 30,000 visitors who are attracted every year by the mix of professional product information at the stands and erotic entertainment on the show’s stages. The internationally renowned fair attracts visitors, industry professionals and media from all over the world to Berlin every year. The 2025 version of the Venus Festival will happen September 25th through the 28th a little bit early this year. Walter, what new features or concepts will visitors experience at Venus this year? Yeah, some small changes because the last year was really one of the best shows we ever had in the last 10 years. So we’re trying to make some small mistakes better like we have lots of crowded people at the entrance area. We create a new fast lane section where people can go faster in and we changed our show concept. Tell me about it. So we had one big main stage at the end of the hall 21. Now we call it ShowCube where we integrate it in a more hall near to the entrance and the showCube means that people can see from three different sides. It’s integrated in the hall and people can see not only from front row but also from the sides. So it’s more interactive with the fans. Well, very good. Interactive is always good. Yes, exactly. How has the visitor demographic changed over the past few years? Oh yes, it’s one of the most visible and reasonable changes in the last years because lots of people think always of the older male visiting Venus and change totally. Of course, we have people getting much more younger. Main age I think is between 25 and 35, something like that. And lots of more women of course, or people feel like women. It’s nearly half of the visitors now. Yes, that’s the book and we have a lot of couples coming. That’s also a visit to change when you’re walking through the hall. It’s a lot of couples coming and not only one sexual people. 10 years ago, 15 years ago, it wasn’t like that? No, totally not. It was really man-orientated, older man coming. And it was a different atmosphere, it’s a different attitude. But the whole life and society changed, same like this. People getting more open-minded. People getting more naturally addicted to adult sites and only fans and these kinds of stuff. It’s more general and it’s more easy and sex toys are more common and easy. And yeah, I think that’s the main reasons. Nice. So you now call it the Venus Festival. It used to be called Venus Berlin. How does this new branding impact the event experience? It comes like people, in the early days, people just visited the Venus for one or maybe two days. But now lots of people are coming for all days. They’re coming on Thursday and stay until Sunday. And they come every day and they go also to the night event or parties and it has more like a festival character, even in the halls. The sound concept was changed that people are more addicted to stay longer there, to have dinner there, to drink there, to have conversations with the people, so it’s more like a whole day or more than one day experience than only visiting a fair for two hours. That’s why we changed it because we want to support this feeling and get the people like an atmosphere to stay for days and have all days a good time and the night also. So it’s like also the experience they have of the fair in Berlin, in nightclubs, in Venus parties and all around that. Yeah, I would think that the more they have to do, obviously, the longer they’re going to stay, right? Exactly, exactly. And it’s not like only they have to do and the experience should be more like going on a festival to experience new people, getting known, new people, talking. It’s not like just visiting at a booth, like what is a new product or which kind of model is presenting itself there. It’s to experience the whole atmosphere and the whole festival. Is the swinging lifestyle represented? Because I know that those people certainly will stay for days at things. Yes, of course. We have lots of swingers there and there are lots of parties around Venus for these kind of people. At the fair, it’s not like this obviously, but of course, the people are there, yes, making contact, talking to people. I don’t know what they are talking about and doing in the night, but yeah, there will be a lot of going. How much more of a B2B show is Venus than what it was when you first got involved? When I was first involved, it was of course a little bit bigger, but because we have a big breakout in 2012, then after the years, it was much more B2C-orientated, but we changed it in the last six to eight years again. We have our own B2B section and we have one main point because it’s so good for us to be also B2B because a lot of people are there. All the big companies come also with their B2B teams. A lot of people coming there to see people because there is everybody. It’s like Venus Berlin is like a meeting point. If the people are coming there and talking about business, give them just their own area to have it in a good way. We see there a lot of, and of course, all the fan side business helps us also a lot because there are a lot of new companies and agencies and supporting companies and also the creators are interested in getting new infos about that and how they can push their own creator business. That’s where we see a lot of good potential to grow more. Coming to Venus, what companies would I run into there? If I was at the show? Of course, we have sector companies and pleasure product companies. Of course, we have all the porn sites, campsites, amateur sites there. In the B2B section, we have like order told before, all the fan sites, agencies for creators, age revocation, payment, click advertisements, all these kinds of stuff. This is around the creator amateur webcam business surrounded. What role does social media play in promoting Venus today compared to the early 2000s? That’s the biggest change for us in marketing. So Instagram for us is the most important channel and we put the most effort into this and less to classical media or radio promotion or these kinds of stuff. The only thing we do next to social media mainly is of course corporations with influencers or media sites in Germany and we do big out of home campaigns. But the channel with the most reach and the most interaction and direct contacts and mails is of course social media. Yes, so that’s very important for us because all the organic stuff is free. That’s a good price. Yes, exactly. Are there any new countries or regions that have been particularly well represented among the exhibitors this year? I don’t see one region or one country or area especially growing. Of course, in the last years, we had lots of companies from East Europe coming to our shows because it’s not so far away and lots of companies are there based and we have another part from Asia of course, but that’s most money for the sex toys. We got the production companies directly to come to Berlin and sell directly without any wholesale to the trade visitors. That’s the two trends I would see. Of course, US companies are back since some years. Some years until 2018/19, there weren’t so much US companies, but they are coming back and won’t be part of it. Among the attendees, give me a breakdown on how many people are coming from Germany, how many are coming from the rest of Europe, the US, and so on and so forth. You mean from B2C visitors? Yes. Yes, of course. I don’t know. I would say it’s 95% is German based. Of course. Yes, yes. That’s really like from 34,000 visitors last year, 95% from Germany. The most other parts are coming from surrounding countries around Germany like France, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Switzerland, Austria, of course, East Spain, the surrounding countries. Then we have, of course, from Ukraine, Cyprus, Greece, Brazil. I don’t know, but in the total numbers it’s not the main part, of course. It’s really only the fans who come to visit there and to see maybe their stars there or whatever. How about on the B2B side? Yes, that’s, of course, people coming from far away. Also lots of Europe people, of course. Then we have lots of people from Eastern Europe coming from Romania, Czech, Hungary, because there’s a lot of stuff going on in adult business, of course. And yeah, but we have also visitors from South America last year, of course, from the US, people coming because there are some other shows in September in Europe so they can combine it with Venus maybe. So yeah, so that’s getting more international, of course. So there’s a lot of people who listen to this podcast that are B2B people. Convince those people that they should come to Venus this year. If you want to meet people and responsible people on A-level from big websites in adult business and companies working in affiliate marketing, payment, and these kinds of stuff in Venus, they are all there. You can meet them in a really nice small atmosphere. And the good thing is you can see also their product there. That’s a good combination. You’re not just talking about business and traffic and these kinds of stuff. You can see also what makes a product life and then what’s going on with this kind of product and what’s around this product. So I think that’s a special combination that you can see. Like you can see a webcam model and you can see the people behind this site. So it’s quite a good place to see a lot of people make good talks. Yeah, have it in a quite not similar atmosphere to other B2B conference. Let’s talk about the education part of it. You just brought that up. Tell me the types of information that people can pick up by coming to Venus. You mean on the B2B part, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We have short panels, just maximum 20 minutes where people really telling their use cases of, for example, running their OnlyFence account, growing with a marketing agency, growing with a OnlyFence supporting agency, what kind of things they can do on their mainstream social media to not being banned. Use cases of, of course, in Germany age verification problems, which is always important everywhere. And everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. And the early days it was only Germany, but now it’s everywhere. Of course. Yeah. Yes, that’s right. Really, we’re trying to be very, very practical with giving tips what Russia can do to grow their business and what kind of business are there around that of these kind of stuff. We try to be very, very helpful to creators and also to companies in this business. I think that’s our main, main issue to help people getting better business. Are you looking for more topics for these, these types of events? Yes, of course, of course. We are always looking for new inputs. Of course, all the kind of AI is still a big thing. And everybody’s asking, we will have also some speaker, hopefully about that. I don’t have their finalist actually, but of course, all technical technology developments like in the mainstream, which makes the business better or even not better, I don’t know. But everybody’s talking about it. So yes, it will also be one part of our panels. And this will run in July. We’re doing this in May. I’m sure you’ll have everything pretty darned down by then knowing you. Yes, exactly. How important is Berlin’s open-minded culture to the spirit of Venus? Very important. That’s the perfect combination between what we are showing at the fair, what kind of message we want to transport and the people come there. And when they get off the expo area, either where they go, they go to clubs, they go into bars, to restaurants and in the night to the famous Berlin clubs. The Venus atmosphere is still going on there, so they can make really special experience. And of course, the people are everywhere from Berlin with this open-minded area come also to Venus. So Venus in Berlin is really, that must be, must have combination to stay there. Interesting. Well, talk about Berlin for people who haven’t been there before. I have. I wish I had ventured out a little more, but tell people about Berlin and what they’re going to find there and while they’re there, what they can do and what they can enjoy. It should be on the bucket list from everybody for sure. Every day it’s changing and developing. New quarters are getting more popular, new people coming there. For example, in Berlin-Mitte, you are better in communicating in English than in German already if you want to get your coffee. Yes, I want my coffee. Yes, lots of crazy restaurants. Every week there’s a new restaurant where you can go. So outdoor festivals, you have really nice green area and parks where you can stay, especially in the summer. You can have a lot of outdoor activities. Berlin is a city with a lot of green areas. You have the river there. You can stay at the water having a boat tour, seeing Berlin from another side. And of course, you have always the capital of Germany. All the embassies are there. It’s so international and of course, the club scene is one of the best in the world, I think. So you can go partying three days in a row without seeing sunlight. There’s no problem. At my age, I’ll take your word for it. But so I hear. What role does diversity and inclusivity play at the Venus Festival? Yeah, I think it was always normal to be there and it’s getting more popular and more common. We created two years ago a green area, which is very well accepted last year. That was really fun and everybody was laughing area with lots of good music, costumes and good atmosphere. But I wouldn’t say that it’s a special thing because it’s quite normal again. People at Venus, everybody was accepted like he or she was. You can wear what you want. You can even come naked. And it’s a safe space for everybody and you can do and get your feelings how you want it. So it’s important for us, but I wouldn’t put it too much outside because it’s normal for Venus. It’s not a special thing like for other maybe companies or festivals where they say, "Oh, we are open minded too," because Venus was always open minded for everybody. So there’s people at the show just walking around in their birthday suit. Yes, as an alpha always. Of course, you have a tie on right with your birthday suit. Yes, of course, of course. I love it. Can you tell us about the concept behind the Venus stars and how they contribute to the festival atmosphere? Yes, Venus is living only with the people who are coming there and how the stars, models, creators, influencers, porn actors, whatever. That’s our main point to getting people there. And we’re bringing a lot of in now. Some coming by companies and their portal sites, some coming by their own. We have also like a called FEN area where a lot of models presenting their self. And that’s why people came there. They can talk to the creator. They know only from, I don’t know, my dirty hobby, your only fans or seen them only online from the US on brothers. So that’s really the big thing. People laugh to come there to talk, to have a photo with them, even to give them a hug, maybe. That’s very special. And it’s always in a very accepted eye to eye on one stage conversation. So there’s no star atmosphere. There’s no problems. People are very friendly. And that’s really special to see how that’s still working. Yeah. And it’s always been that way, right? Yes, it’s always been there, but it’s getting more and more. Because in the early days, of course, it was the porn stars. You know only from movies. And now it’s the girl next door. And of course, all the girls you know from Instagram and only fans on these kind of sites. And now you can really see them and have a conversation with them. And you can talk about, "I saw you last week in the webcam and you sent me this picture or whatever on a direct way." And it’s one of the only possibilities for a lot of people to see that. You’ve been in the industry for a long time. What’s your take on the whole creator economy and how it’s changed the industry? Yeah, I think it’s one of the most important takes and changes, of course. In general, I see it’s very, very good because the creator can really free of any other, not really, but mainly free of other companies or supporters or not. And then they can decide more on their own. But of course, it’s also not risky. But as always, some people are not strong enough to tend on their own thing. And that’s always the same thing. But it’s a big change. And it opens a really bright new area for people. There are coming a lot of, I would say, mostly girls, nearly 18, just getting 18, coming to Venus. I’m looking for, maybe I’m thinking always to create an only-fence account. So they’re looking around, talking to more experienced creators and to ask, "How is it going? What can I do? Is it really good to do? What will my parents say?" So yeah, it’s good for the industry and we see it. Because of course, we are pro-benefits of it. And yeah, it’s a good change and we will see how it’s going in the next year. So what’s coming next there? Now, the impression I get about Venus in Merlin as compared to, say, the Exotica shows and some of the other consumer shows is that, say, the US shows, for instance, it’s not that they’re looked down upon, although some people look down upon them. It’s just that they’re kind of in their own area and the rest of the public doesn’t really want to be involved. It sounds like Berlin’s very proud of Venus. Yes, exactly. So of course, in these days, in this Venus week, everybody has benefits like all the hotels, restaurants, clubs, etc. And it’s like people going around and see naked people or sexy people and they are, "It’s Venus again." Of course, it’s not a problem. It’s like, "Oh, okay, cool. Yeah, oh, I have to go there." Yeah, it’s really well accepted and part of the city, part of Berlin. Yes. Nice. The US could definitely learn a lot from that. We’re supposed to be such a fair-minded country, my country, but not so much. How does Venus balance the adult entertainment side with the professional business side? I think that’s a special from Venus that we have both things. What I told you before, you can sit there in a nice B2B lounge and have your business talks and make great businesses. And then you go out of this room and you see like strip performance or even a hardcore dildo show in the same area. And that’s what makes it so special for everybody. I think this is a combination between having shows, seeing what kind of products and what is the end product where the money comes from, or what is the user wanting or asking for, and the business on the other side. This combination is really great. And you can talk, for example, if you’re running a fan site, you can talk to your creators there and getting feedback or discussing new features for the title, these kind of stuff. That’s perfect to have a really talk with the people who are working with your product every day. I see when you talk about fan sites, I see that you’re going to have some seminars about that. And I wasn’t surprised at all that Andy Womer was going to be running that. What a surprise. Yeah, we are doing the fan sites meet up with him and create a traffic and we have it for two days this year. Last year was only one day, but the question for it was high. So we’re doing for two years together with him. And yeah, you know, he’s a good influencer and these kind of stuff for us. Andy’s amazing. He’s been on the podcast. I’ve been, I’ve been trying to get him back on for three years. So now he said he’s going to come back on. So that’s good. But Andy’s a superstar, man. Definitely an OG in our industry. And I would have been surprised if he wasn’t doing something in Venus. Let’s put it that way. Yeah, exactly. What are some of the most unusual products or innovations we can expect to see this year? Okay, I think from the tech side, of course, we will get some new info about still AI things. Of course, and all these kind of how you say, of course, the chatting things for fansites and avatar, of course, that will be one main thing. And also on the sex toys side. So there are adults getting more and more put inside with AI things so they can talk to you. They are expecting some new toys were really nearly, I don’t know, I would say 85% of a real, real person. They’re feeling real. They can talk to you. They can move around. It’s really crazy. And how they can have sex with you. They can have sex with you also. Yes. It’s really crazy. And on other sex toys things, of course, there’s also a lot of stuff of combinations with apps and AI, what you can do to give pleasure to your maybe girlfriend, 1000 kilometers away, all these kind of stuff. So mostly technical things are always shown at Venus, what is the new shit? Has the focus shifted more toward live experiences and performances compared to past years? Not really the focus shifted. It’s changed what is shown, I would say, the early days or some years ago, it was more like classical strip shows and couple shows and these kind of stuff. So today the shows we’ve seen are more wider from what they are doing. Of course, it’s always sexy, but the costume is getting more special. Also, we have some cosplay shows. So I think it’s getting more wider and it’s not only like just getting clothes off. What opportunities does Venus offer from newcomers and startups in the adult industry? Yes. Of course, there are B2B sections where companies can just book their B2B lounge, we are called it for not much money, to getting people known, to get first contacts maybe. We had, for example, last year, some just started only-fence business agencies, just come there, make their first contacts, meet people. And the same is always for creator. We want to get into the business. We have a creator ticket for them, which is very cheap. So they can go there for all days, walking around, see people. So we’re trying to support them and make them special deals or offers to get new company, new business, new ideas into our business. Nice. How do you maintain international relevance for Venus in an increasingly digitalized world? Yes, I think that the main thing for us is the, I would say, word of most marketing because everybody is talking about it. We saw there a big effect in the last years, especially from the US companies, as models who were at Venus going back to the US and talking about, "You cannot imagine what was happening there." And they were naked people and you cannot imagine, it was so crazy. And people were talking about it and everybody was talking about it. So they write me on Instagram, "Can I go to Venus last year?" So I think that’s very important for us to get there. And so when I go now on another B2B conference, five years ago, I have to say, "What is Venus?" And now everybody, "Yes, I know what is Venus." I heard of it. So I think that’s the main point for us. You never had to tell me what Venus was. I knew what it was. You and I have been talking at shows for years. Yeah, but not everybody is the same. Yes, this is true. I try to stay aware. It’s my job to be aware of everything that’s happening in this industry or just about everything anyway. And I think I do a decent job of it. What’s your personal highlight when you walk through the exhibition every year? For me, my highlight is always the unknown, what I never have expected to be there. Of course, I know the name of the exhibitors there before. And when I read there is a company, I don’t know, ABC Trading Company. I have no idea what they’re doing. And I don’t see the info before. And then I walk there and see what they’re doing really or what kind of people are behind it. That’s for me the most experienced to get, "Oh, whoa, that’s crazy." So there are always some really crazy things or some really crazy and a positive way people. I see there what they’re doing, what kind of products. Some years ago, we have a company doing venuses and vaginas from chocolate. And this was really, when you see it the first time, you say, "What? How did you come on this?" I love chocolate. I don’t care what it’s shaped like. Yeah, but it was really nice. And people loved it. And they sell a lot. And this kind of stuff is always, yeah. And of course, meeting really good people there. I know so many people. And every venus, I met a lot of new ones and it’s always great to talk to people to get to know them. Yeah, from all over the world, which is nice. Yes, exactly. Off topic a little bit, you have to have some crazy stories in doing this for 15 years. Can you think of any in particular? I can think about a lot, but I don’t think I would tell them here. Oh, come on, come on. This is definitely an X-rated podcast. You don’t have to worry about it. Tell me something that I don’t know if it shocked you, but it made you go, "Whoa." Shocking was only in the early days. Yes. When I was the first time at venus, that was some shocking moments, but actually nothing would shock me. Yeah. Okay. In the last years, when I think my first, we have like a fisting seminar. That was really where I was sending like, "Oh my gosh," where we have like, it’s she’s called the fisting sister and she giving an explanation and she asked the crowd if somebody wants to try it. And there were several hands going up, "Yes, I would like to try it." Yes. So, yes, this is one really interesting one. You know, it’s really funny because I’ve had a couple of gentlemen on the podcast, one of them in particular, Yoshikawa Saki from Japan. The name sounds like it, of course. And he specializes in fisting and his graphic description of it, I got to say, it made me squirm. I mean, it’s just like I’m sitting there going, "Oh my God." Anyway, I was squirming in my chair a little bit while I was doing the interview. Lovely guy. But I mean, it was just like, "Okay." So I feel you. But hey, to each their own, that’s what I’ve always said. Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah. And of course, we have like a, we have a kinky Venus where all the BDSM and these kind of stuff is happening. And there’s always some, some, some stings where I think, "Okay, I couldn’t understand why people like it, but okay." I have that experience all the time in this industry where it’s like, "Oh, people are into this, huh? All right, it makes money. It’s not illegal. Cool." Yeah. As long as it has nothing to do with kids or animals, it’s all good. Of course. Yeah. Same. Yeah. So looking ahead, where do you see the Venus Festival heading in the next five to 10 years? I see in growing the, the, what I described before, the experience of the festival, the character of being there a long time, staying like on a music festival, listening to music, seeing shows, having some drinks, talking to people. And of course, seeing more of industries related to adults. What is around there? So having real adult brands, but maybe have also some mainstream lifestyle brands, which rest is a combination of all and making it even more open-minded and even more free and open for other people and companies to see and visit their people. Very cool. So this year, Venus is hosting the exclusive fan sites meetup in the B2B area, kind of alluded to it earlier. What makes this event a must attend for creators and agencies? Besides Andy. Yeah. Besides Andy. I think for newcomers, it’s great to talk to companies, to talk to agencies, to talk to other creators. What is their experience? What are they to do and not to do for newcomers, for starters, to getting really practical tips or what they can do, what they should not do. Maybe to think about doing it more public because they see a lot of creators are doing their business just on their own and nobody knows about it. At Venus, everything is visible. If you’re going to Venus as a creator, you get a lot of pictures, you let it go for social media interaction and attraction. So I think that’s really a good chance to meet the people there, to talk to them, to get their opinion on what is good in the business, what is not good in what are the big challenges in the business actually. That’s the place to be for every people who are in this business active. Fabulous. Walter, I’d like to thank you for being back with us on Adult Site Broker Talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon, probably before next year’s show. Yeah, thank you very much for having me here and I will be back again very well. Thank you. My broker tip today is part five of how to buy a site. Last week we talked about how to determine the value of a site, how to negotiate the sale and how to get to the point of drawing up an agreement. And now you’re talking to your attorney and you’re having them draft an agreement. What should be in it? Well, your attorney should guide you through the legal side, but here are some considerations to keep in mind from a buying standpoint. What’s the date you’d like to close? Make sure you know you’ll have the money to either pay the deposit or the entire amount of the purchase by that date. I’ve had buyers who aren’t ready and that just causes issues. Make sure that all of the assets you’re purchasing are in that agreement, such as every domain included in the sale, processing and payment accounts, relationships with vendors, all records including 2257 data, software to run the sites and any other assets such as source code for the sites. Of course, it should spell out any payment schedule if there is one. Who’s responsible for closing costs, such as paying for escrow? And there are always terms that are unique to yours in the seller’s situation. This assumes you’re the party responsible for drawing up the agreement. If the seller is drawing up the agreement, then it’s important that you express all of this to your attorney so they can check the seller’s agreement and see if any changes are necessary. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be speaking with Chris Crisco of Choice Filmz and Choice Talent Management. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Side Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Walter Hasencleaver of the Venus Festival. Talk to you again next week on Adult Side Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) Thank you.
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