This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we'll be speaking with Thorsten Heim of EroticOnly.com. There's some upcoming events we'll be attending. December 3rd and 4th, I'll be at Affiliate World Conference in Bangkok. December 7th through the 9th, I'll be sponsoring AW Summit Elite in Ko Chang, Thailand. And to start the year right, I'll be in Hollywood for XBiz LA. I hope to see many of you at these events. If you'd like to sit down and discuss business at any of these shows, contact us at adultsitebroker.com. We're proud to announce our latest project, thewaronporn.com. You'll find articles on age verification laws and other attacks on our industry. It's to raise awareness of our industry's plight in the war on porn. You'll find all that and more at thewaronporn.com. Now time for our properties of the week for sale at Adult Site Broker. We have a premium AI companion platform focused on emotional realism and deep memory. Users interact with lifelike companions that remember every detail, respond with real emotion, and never leave you. There's a porn picture site with both a Web2 and Web3 domain. The keyword of the domains is one of the most globally recognized and searched terms in the world. It's a single word domain which ensures strong brand positioning, SEO advantage, and credibility. We have a buyer who's looking for dating and lifestyle sites in Europe. They would also consider other geos. They currently operate some very successful sites. We're offering a strip-chat white label that's growing rapidly. The average user spends 24 minutes on the site. We have a network of interracial reality hardcore sites. The main site has reality hardcore porn with amateur girls as well as some porn stars. There's a unique platform that bridges the gap between mainstream social link services like Linktree and adult content creators on platforms like OnlyFans. They combine a bio link with the ability to sell virtual gifts. We're offering a growing free porn gaming site with adult sex games. The site is owned by one of the top entrepreneurs in our industry. And there's a highly active, organically grown Reddit community centered around the stocking and foot fetish niches. It's one of the leading spaces for adult fetish content on Reddit. For more information on any of these listings, go to our listings page at adultsidebroker.com. Now time for this week's interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker Talk is Thorsten Heim of EroticOnly.com. Thorsten, thanks for being with us on Adult Site Broker Talk. Thank you for being your guest. Appreciate it. All right. Let's get in it. You got it. Thorsten is a business consultant with over 20 years of experience in the adult industry. He's renowned for his strategic insight and results-driven mindset. Thorsten specializes in SEO, media buying, platform optimization, digital marketing, and business development. Throughout his career, he's partnered with leading platforms, creators, and studios. Eroticonly.com is a premium adult streaming service featuring exclusive content, top stars, and in-house productions. Customers can enjoy flat-rate live cams, high-quality videos, and a constantly updated library. It's open to studios, independent creators, and webmasters. It allows you to upload content, monetize your traffic, and grow with a platform built with the future of adult entertainment in mind. So, Thurston, how'd you like your commercial? That sounds really good. Good. I'm glad you liked it. So, what's your role in this industry? Why don't you get into a little more detail? People throw around the terms veteran and consultant a lot. What have you built, fixed, or fought through in this business? As you already mentioned, I'm in this industry for more than 20 years, mostly behind the scenes. I have worked in consultancy for major companies in this industry, built ref share models, helped with legal issues, fixed program distribution lines. And those creators actually own the traffic. People say I'm the guy. People call when shit's on fire and I usually fix it. When we come down to what I've done in the industry and what I actually think, for example, YouPorn was on the verge to getting blocked or banned in Germany. A couple of years ago, we were at the same point we are today with all this blocking and age verification, but in Germany, we are already dealing with this issue since over 20 years. And at this point, YouPorn was already blocked from one provider. And we actually solved this problem. In this case, we went to court in Frankfurt and sued this provider to block Google as well in Germany because Google is also distributing porn to everyone. the much worse things YouPorn ever distributed. Case was dismissed and two days later, YouPorn was reachable again in Germany and everything was like before. And the term that a provider has to plug a website never came up again. Wow. Yeah, that's only one example. That's one of your clients you worked for. Okay. So you're still in the consulting business. So why keep hustling instead of just sitting back and watching the money roll in from erotic only? To be frank, we've developed now for one year, one and a half year, and erotic only is now online for five months, six months around. Despite the fact that we already have a good count of premium subscribers, we are still a startup. Every penny we are earning is going into development and other costly things. We all agreed, pounded the creed when launching, the first year we reinvest all revenue we do, and you can't live from air and laugh. This is very true. What's the biggest misconception people still have about you in this industry? That I'm just another executive chasing dollar. I've been on set. I've fixed stuff. I'm driven talent, not nature-deated with pissed off agents. I'm not a tourist. I build with people, not on top of them. All right. Makes sense. You've seen porn evolve from DVD, the pay-per-view, the user-generated content, and the case of OnlyFans. How did that shape your vision for Erotic Only? Why don't you go into some detail of what was behind this? So every wave of change in this industry stripped out middlemen, pushed creators to the front and fragmented the audience. But in that chaos, we lost something, editorial vision. So at Erotic Only, we are not trying to replace hands-eye. We are trying to bring back storytelling, quality control, and actual production values. That's very important for us and also I think for all clients. As nice as user-generated content and the authenticity of user-generated content is the quality and the storytelling is still very important. Okay. So if I go to erotic only, what am I going to say? When you go to erotic only, you can see premium content from well-known studios. We have just onboarded the German series from Dogford Network. We are talking with prizers and other big studios, which will be soon on our website. And, of course, sometimes exclusive content from well-known German actors and amateur content producers. Okay. Is this primarily going to be German, or is it going to be for the whole world in all languages? So we are aiming for international audience, but of course, Germany is a very huge and it's our key market because we are based in Barcelona, Spain. But the majority of the team is from Germany and we have a deep understanding of the German market. So I would say we are focusing not exclusively on the German market, but it's a big part and it's deep in our DNA, of course. Yeah, so you're going to kind of conquer Germany before you try to conquer the world. We try to do this side by side. But of course, in Germany, we already have the bigger success than in the US, based off the deeper understanding. Sure, sure. Well, if you've worked in the market your whole career, you're certainly going to know it well, right? That's true, Bruce. So why launch a new streaming platform in 2025? Between the tubes, the fan sites, and the aggregators, do you actually think there's any business left? I could answer this with a question. Why is there a Starbucks at every corner? God, do I know. And why there are, but there are also still dozens of small independent coffee shops as well. And the answer is simple. It's a demand. And let's be realistic. Approximately 300,000 people turn 18 every day of the year. So I believe there's place for everything and everyone. Absolutely. Yeah, they need to be 18. That's for damn sure. So, speaking of that, what's your take on this whole age verification mess? I mean, this is something that you guys have had in Germany for a while, but in the United States, the UK, and throughout the world, it just seems to be getting more and more rampant. Yeah, I've seen it. When I was also consulting for other companies, we had it already in 2015, I think, when Great Britain came up with their intention to plug the internet for adult content and only allow people of age to view it. But they delayed it always. And now we have 2025 and they are still pretending it's coming next year. It's coming next year. So France is now doing the same. The US is blocking in different states. In this case, what I can say, we try to be compliant, but only as compliant as our competitions are. So we are not a business from Germany. We are from Barcelona, Spain, and we keep to the age restrictions of Spain. And at the moment, they are planning as well something, but they are not true. And it will be not as ridiculous as a German measurement against to do age verification. Yeah. Maybe you can get into a little detail about the German law, because I know a little bit about it, but not a ton, and I'm sure a lot of people aren't that familiar with it. Yeah, so in the past, we had the double ident system, which literally means you, as a website owner, had to block the website technically and manually. So the user had to register. He got a form. He had to fill it out, put it in an envelope, go to the post office, show the guy that he's 18, and send the letter. Later, you were able to send him a technical device like a USB stick he can put in his computer and, of course, his access code. So when this arrived, he was able to put it in the slot of his computer, type in his credentials, and then he will be verified. Nowadays, we have some more modern ways to do so with face identity. And so you have to show your face a nice lady or a nice man. And they take a screenshot of you holding your passport next to your face. So similar to porn productions when you do the ID shot for the record. So 22, 57, 75. Yeah. So similar to that. Yeah. But it's still ridiculous. Yeah. What could possibly go wrong, huh? Identity theft. It's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. Has there been much pushback in Germany about that? How do you mean by pushback? Has the public gotten it all up in arms about that? Have they gotten upset about it? Not at all. Because they know they get everything everywhere in the internet. You can't really break the internet or control the internet. There are VPNs, there is everything. And as soon as they try to block anything, there are ways. And although in the news, there are ways described how you can surpass this blocking and everything. And at least there's also the deep web and the dark web where you can get much worse of stuff. And that's my concern when we are talking about age verification, that you are pushing the people into the deep and dark web. And this bit will be much worse for us. Yeah, either that or websites that aren't at all compliant, that are overseas, and have no rules. And those sites will have all kinds of extreme things that kids will see. Yeah, that's true, Bruce. And that's my concern on all these discussions. And what I'm a little bit concerned or what worries me that all the big players like Byborg or Aelo, who are out there. And for example, also my free camps and Gubs and Terry OnlyFans, yeah, that they are not coming together in one place and say, hey, what we can do together and let's find together a solution. We can present the government that we are all playing together. Or, yeah, everyone is cooking his own food. And at the end, it's only chaos out there. Exactly. You know, I mentioned this many times on the podcast that around 10 years ago, maybe it's when I first heard about the German law. That might have been what sparked or that the UK was thinking about a law. God knows they finally put it into effect. It's crazy that the industry needs to come together and come up with a standard. And unfortunately, being realistic, you know this industry, Darson, I know this industry, to expect the people in this industry to come together on anything is next to impossible. So, in a perfect world, it would happen, but knowing the personalities involved, I very much doubt it will ever happen that this industry will come together on any subject, let alone age verification. Yeah, that's true, Bruce. I'm totally agree with you in this case. Yep. We're both veterans. Yeah. We have seen shit. Yes, we have all the time. You've got a monster catalog from one of your co-founders. So is Erotic only going for volume, exclusivity, or something different with its content game? We play smart. Of course, our partner brings one of Europe's biggest catalogs that gives us scale fast, but we are not just dumping it. We curate it, re-contextualize it to keep it fresh. Plus, we fund exclusive shoes. So it's not just quantity, it's quality control with depth. We call it like that. Right. That's good. People want both. They want a lot of content and they want quality content. The public's very demanding. And because there's a lot of competition, to beat the competition, or at least get your fair share of the market, which is really what it comes down to, you've got to be better, don't you? Yeah, of course. In a perfect world, we would have a plan. What is our goal or where is our vision in the future? I can't roll it out here. Understandable. But we have a really good plan. What's in our vision would be the perfect world for us in our little erratic-only universe. And it has differently to do with quality and storytelling and things which people get addicted to. Yeah, absolutely. By the way, are you going to utilize AI at all in your new platform? We are doing it already with content distribution. but we are not yet so far that we are implementing AI content. It's still on a stage where you have six fingers, four balls, two feet. Yeah, it's very difficult. And I think until we are at the point that you can actually really view this content, we will need some more here. And we are not pictures only. We are movie. And I think there are also some stuff. Real actors, you can't replace with AI actors what real people have. Not yet. You never know. A couple of years away from there. Of course, this technology is in the evolving part. And we have to watch it. And it's also exciting. In my opinion, all this AI stuff is really exciting. And I think the governments of the world will come up with regulations at one or the other point. Sure. Absolutely. Some of the AI sites are already butting up against some regulation when it comes to things like deepfakes and their sites being taken down by registrars and things like that. So there is some regulation that's already kind of controlling it in a good way because the whole deepfake thing is not great. And we don't want videos out there, not that we're not going to have them. We don't want videos out there that have a woman's face and somebody else's body doing something, you know? Yeah, and I'm aware of some sites that no longer exist because of it. Well, they don't exist on the domain they were on. They just had to get off the.AI domain. So, yeah, it's the Wild West out there. In the AI sector, I fully agree with you. Yeah, yeah. You and I, when we first started in this industry, we never could have imagined this. I mean, you know, AI was around, but certainly not in the form that it is now. It's insane. And the processing power has just gotten so immense that crazy things can happen. Yeah, I know, you know, days back where this flash animations and this stuff coming up always was like, there was one guy in Germany, his name was Dierbauer, which means the builder. And he was the icon of the flash animation stuff. Everybody talked about what technology he needed in his office to make all this happen. And let's be honest, in Hollywood, they are working with AI in some years, yeah. But CGI and AI combined, and they need computers, big, I don't know. Also, you need a lot of money to maintain all this, the computers, the servers. But the prices are dropping by the minute, too. So it's kind of interesting. Yeah. Think about when we came up with the internet, how much you have to pay for hosting. Or for a computer. Yeah. Although Apple still managed to get a lot out of me every time I buy a computer. So they're pretty good at that. Yeah, they are really good at it. They still keep the spirit alive. Great marketers. Definitely great marketers. They're good sometimes. They are. So let's talk about the cam flat rate feature. That's certainly not standard in our industry. Why bake that into the core offer? We know cams drive stickiness and engagement. People want some kind of interaction, not just watching. Flatrate, we keep it for users to keep the users on the platform. Plural a little bit the line between passive and interactive and gives also creators another income stream. It's not a tension and no one else is packing it right at the moment. That's great. Now, I think that's a huge advantage. There's no two ways about it. So your co-founder, Andre, is a design, UIX, and post-production expert. How deep does that go into the platform's DNA? All the way. You know, mostly people say premium and sensors, cube UX with a dark theme. Andre is a real design and post expert whose actual direct content understands mood, color grading, user flow. It's visual sex appeal before sex even starts. Hmm. Interesting. I should have him take a look at my site. Yeah. But, you know, that's what people signing up and coming back. And it's really because we are all real aesthetic in this point. It's very important for us that now we find, well, there's a lot that we keep a certain corporate identity and everything else. Very important. So you mentioned to me you've got a killer in SEO and business development on the team. How much of your launch plan is cold strategy versus industry instinct? we run our data all day. SEO, funnels, click heat maps, you name it, we do it. But instinct is what makes a call. I've been in this game for so long, I feel what's working. And analytics and instinct, that's a killer mix. Strategy is what scales you. And instinct protects you. That's in a nutshell. Interesting. You know what that kind of reminds me of? I'm a big baseball fan. And I know in Europe, something you guys don't care about. But there's always this argument between the old school baseball people who go on instinct and they go on hunch and they go on their knowledge and what they've seen over the years versus the analytics people. that are strictly going off of numbers. And it almost seems where it had really rolled to analytics at one point, it seems to be kind of coming back again to the old school people, the people who were raised in the game and who understand the game. Sure, they use analytics like you do, but they also use their heads. Yeah, I see your point and I understand it. And I think it's comparable. Yeah, we Germans, we don't have big sense for baseball. I know what it is. And I have watched the game, but I still don't understand the rules at all. You're not expected to. I'm very sorry for that. I know in America it's a really big thing. But it's comparable, I think, to a lot of points. Also, it's true to European soccer. There are those people who play with instinct and then they are the analysts. When we play the first half with the speed and the temperature is like this, they have to drink one and a half bottles of this. And then, yeah, the poor analytics and comparing the weather with the length of the grass and everything. How was it five years ago and how is it today? So yes, we have to play this strategy and we have to wear this shoes maybe. And yeah, but at the end of the day, I think in the future, it will be really good that you have the strategy compared with the knowledge. And I think that the knowledge will always kill the analytics by a bit. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, and the best of all worlds is a combination of the two, let's face it. So you've got the knowledge, but then you've also got the numbers. So it's good to have both. It's a bit like the farmer who said, oh, today the frost is jumping only high as half. It will rain today. And the sun looked at his weapon and said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yahoo weather says there will be no rain and half an hour later he splashed. Exactly. What's the biggest hell no you put in the erotic only blueprint? Something you've seen fail repeatedly in our industry that you knew you had to stay away from. Yeah, that's a good, good, good question. I think the biggest problem we have in our industry is that people try to please everyone. Most platforms, especially the big ones, totally get scared and then go vanilla. Safe content, safe branding, zero edges. We said true that if you don't stand for something, you're just background noise. Of course, everything in the boundaries of the law and mostly good taste. But we are not trying to be the next porn up or adult time. We are trying to redefine what premium porn looks like. So that's our big mission, which is written over our desks in the office. Nice, clean, good porn. I love it. Yeah, but also with edges and, of course, fetishes. And don't be scared that some people will say, oh, no, you can't bring this. Yeah, you can. And it's still in the boundaries of the law and only because you don't want to see it. It's not bad. Well, if you don't want to see it, then don't watch. Yeah, don't watch it when you don't want to see it. You know, it's like a lot of these anti-porn people. They talk about how disgusting it is and everything else. My retort to them is don't watch it. And they go, well, what about the kids? I go, don't let your kids watch it. put the parental controls on their phones, on their computer. Your problem is that you expect us to keep your kids off of porn, and that's not our job. Our job is to please our customers. Your job is as a parent to protect little Johnny and little Jill from seeing something that's going to disturb them. And that's absolutely right and absolutely true. There was a commercial a couple of years, I think it was when the internet in Germany was evolving. We had a nice trailer, I think Telecom aired it in the TV, where there was a little house somewhere in the suburbs of the city, and a housewife was doing her stuff, and then it ran on the door, and a bunch of Nazis were standing in front of the door, and said, hey, is little Jimmy at home? And she said, yeah, he's upstairs, guys. Join him. Come in. And two minutes later, there was a guy dressed like a pimp with two girls and said, yeah, where's little Jimmy? And she said, come in. He's upstairs. Go and join him. And two little moments later, there was a creepy guy with a little bunny and said, hey, where's little Tina? I want to meet her. And she's like, yeah, go in. She's in her room upstairs. Yeah. That's the conclusion of everything. Would you do this in real life or would you let them in in real life? No, of course not. So please wake up and don't do it on the internet. Look what your kids are doing. Yeah. And here's the problem, okay? They are more technically smart than we are. They're always way ahead of us on things. They knew about VPNs before we did. So don't you think that they can get a VPN if you have age verification laws in your country or in your state? Of course they can. So a lot of these kids have credit cards for God's sakes. I mean, they can activate a VPN and if they don't get Pornhub in Texas, they can get it in California or they can get it in Montreal, Canada or where the hell or in buffalo not spain whatever these laws do absolutely nothing except make it difficult for adults to watch porn and that's what they're trying to do you know they're they're trying to end our industry they won't do it you know they're putting some hurt on us but in the end we'll win the unfortunate part at least in the united states is it's a very conservative supreme court and the Supreme Court pretty much sides with the Republicans on everything. And it's not just the Republicans. The Democrats are not exactly great on this matter either because nobody wants to come out and say they're supporting porn because if they come out and say they're supporting porn, they'll lose their election. And I'm sure it's the same in other countries. It's a mess. Politically, it's a mess. And in my opinion, you know, in the past, We only have the state who tried somehow, but also always pushed and lead by very, I would say, religious ministers, tried to do these regulations, and it never worked out. And although it was led by ministers who wanted to push their faith into the news, So it was not really a real clean intention. But today, I think we are facing religious, motivated organizations who have a lot of money in the background. And they can hire PR agencies and marketing agencies who really know what they do and who are really good. And when you have a marketing agency and someone goes there and says, hey, I have a 1 million budget. Do you want it per year? Do you want to have it? Nobody says no. Exactly. So let's talk content acquisition. Performers want control. Producers want margins. And aggregators eat everyone alive. How are you pulling enough good content to make this sustainable? So, as I mentioned, we have an in-house production and we also have one of our partners have a really big, big catalog. But we are also very, very good in talking to, I would say, small, independent indie producers who do things different. And, of course, acquisition game is always a hard thing. But I think we do it, we do it right. We have a lot of contacts and we can get a lot of good content. And as I told you before, we curate it. We talk also with our studios where we buy content from and tell them what we need, what we want to have and how it has to look. And when it comes down to special features, we want to have reproduced on our own, of course. Very good. What's your biggest internal challenge right now? Is it tech, traffic, creator trust, or team friction? And what keeps you up at night? A lot. A lot is keeping me awake. But when we're talking about erotic only and about the business, it's scaling. It's one thing to launch a product. It's another to grow without losing identity. And the pressure to compromise is constant. Stay true to your vision while expanding fast. That's the razor's edge we are always walking. That's good. Five years from now, if erotic only blows up and becomes the biggest name in adult streaming, what did you get right? And if it crashes, what mistake would have killed it? Yeah, it would be awesome if we were the biggest name in the industry in five years. I think we need a little bit longer. But to combine all this, if we win, it's because we stayed bold, built trust with our users and kept creating experience no one else dared to. And if we lose, it's because we lost the focus or tried to be everything to everyone, not meat or fish. But trust me, we are working very hard on this, on it, that this won't happen. We know who we are and we are not backing down. We are not 18-year-old teens finding nice stuff behind every corner. We are all grown up, grown up guys with enough brain to stick. Excellent. Well, I think that's the biggest problem with most businesses that fail is that they try to be all things to all people and they don't specialize on what they're best at or what they believe is their best selling point. And the longer a company goes along, the greater chance that they're going to fail like that. And being a consultant, you've seen it a lot over the years, haven't you? Of course. When I answer the question that I'm the guy who they call when shit's on fire, it says all. And when you're called, when stuff is on fire, you often get called too late. Yeah, I know. Hey, people try to sell their sites too late or often too early. I get emails from people. We started this three months ago. We want to sell it. Well, number one, why? And number two, there's nothing to sell. Then I get these people who call me too late, who say I want to sell, but their business has been going down for three years. I've had situations where I talked to somebody and I seen a slight amount of slippage and And I go, yeah, it might be a good time to cash out. And they go, no, no, I'm going to stick with it for a while. And then a year later, they get back to me and it's just crashed. And it's like, well, you're going to get a third of what you would have gotten a year ago if we can sell it. You know, Bruce, I was also in some time big in the M&A game. We had a lot of contact back then, you and me, in the other poker game. And yeah, and we also tried to acquire other companies. And when I got down to the numbers and do my analytic stuff, I always asked, my God, how can he still ask for so much money? Where is this confidence sometimes coming from? No, I get it. I get it. I totally know what you're talking about. Too late selling, too late selling, too early. That's how we humans are built. When we have something, we try to hold on, hold on it and don't let it go. Exactly. Well, I've got people sometimes that come to me that are growing like crazy. And month over month, and they say, okay, I want to sell. I go, okay, why? Because, sure, I could get a listing. I could get a sale out of it. I could probably pretty easily sell this and make money, but isn't it better to let them continue to grow and in a year get two or three times more for it? Helps them, helps me. It's all about being ethical. It's all about being a human being and not being money hungry. If you're money hungry, you're going to make less money. I think in the most cases, this is not money hungry. This is a mix, a slight mix from fear of missing out and to be feared to fail at one point. And you have it very often with young founders or first-time founders that, hey, when I sell now, that's more money than I ever had. Yeah, exactly. Even if a guy like you or me would say, hey, your business is still scaling and good scaling and there are no red flags, triggers or indicators that tells me this will anytime soon stop. So run it for two, three, four more years when you are overwhelmed with the management of the company and you have the fear that you fail, then get someone involved who can help you handle all this and scale a bit more. But don't do the mistake and sell. Now, of course, it's more money than you had before and than you ever had. But hell, you could have 10 times more than that when you sell it at the stake. Yes, you could. And usually in that case, I'll monitor the situation and I'll check back every six months to a year and see what's happening just to make sure they don't lose control of it. So it still sells for a good price. But yeah, once they contact me, they're my client and I take care of them. That's the important thing. Well, hey, Thorsten, I'd like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker Talk. And I hope we'll get a chance to do this again soon. Awesome, Bruce. It was very nice talking to you as always, and I appreciate to be part of your awesome podcast. And I'm looking forward to talk with you soon as well. Absolutely. My broker tip today is part nine of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week, we talked about what information to provide a potential buyer. Here's more. Tell them what's special or different about your site. How's it unique? Make sure and include a list of all the websites you're selling in addition to any domains that come along with the sale. Is there anything that adds value to the sale? Provide them with any additional information upon request. Before giving a buyer any information, have them sign a non-disclosure agreement. If you use a broker, the NDA will be provided for you. Good brokers like, oh, I don't know, Adult Site Broker, have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours. And they know how to deal with potential buyers. They'll also negotiate the terms of the sale, such as price and any payment terms. Before closing the sale, find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected. We have those resources, of course. Let's talk about some of the factors that influence the sale price of a website. Number one is always profit. It will be a multiple of the profit, and that multiple is based on whether the profit is trending up or trending down, and how fast it's trending up or down. I've seen valuations of as much as five times, although that's very rare. Normally it's in the two and a half to four times area. I've also seen valuations of one time if the profit is taking a nosedive. We'll talk about this subject more next week. And next week, we'll be speaking with Madelaine Thomas of Image Angel. And that's it for this week's Adult Site Broker Talk. I'd once again like to thank my guest, Thorsten Heim of EroticOnly.com. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I'm Bruce Friedman.
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