This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Side Broker, and welcome to Adult Side Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we'll be speaking with Ricci Levy of Woodhull Freedom Foundation in Part 2 of our conversation. I'm proud to announce that Adult Side Broker Talk has been nominated for the prestigious AVN Awards as Favorite Adult Podcast. My thanks to AVN and those who nominated us. To vote, go to avn.com forward slash awards forward slash voting and choose Favorite Adult podcast. I'll be in Hollywood for XBiz LA January 12th through the 15th. I hope to see many of you there. If you'd like to sit down and discuss business, contact me at adultsidebroker.com. We're proud to announce our latest project, thewaronporn.com. You'll find articles on age verification laws and other attacks on our industry. It's to raise awareness of our industry's plight in The War on Porn. You'll find all that and more at thewaronporn.com. Now time for our properties of the week for sale at AdultSight Broker. We have a premium AI companion platform focused on emotional realism and deep memory. Users interact with lifelike companions that remember every detail and respond with real emotion. We have a network of BDSM subreddits. It has over 1.49 million users, over 3.8 million posts, and almost 45,000 comments. There's a porn picture site with both a Web3 and a Web2 domain. The keyword of the domains is one of the most globally recognized in search terms in the world, porn. We have a buyer who's looking for dating and lifestyle sites in Europe. They would also consider other geos. We're offering a strip-chat white label. The average user spends 24 minutes on the site. We have a network of interracial reality hardcore sites. The main site has reality hardcore porn with amateur girls as well as some porn stars. There's a unique platform that bridges the gap between mainstream social link services like Linktree and adult content creators on platforms like OnlyFans. They combine a bio link with the ability to send virtual gifts. We're offering a growing free porn gaming site with adult sex games. The site is owned by one of the top entrepreneurs in our industry. And there's a highly active, organically grown Reddit community centered around the stocking and foot fetish niches. For more information, go to our listings page at adultsitebroker.com. If you have any questions, please contact us on our website. Now time for this week's interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker Talk is Ricky Levy of Woodhole Freedom Foundation, one of my favorite people. Ricky, thanks for being back with us on Adult Site Broker Talk. Bruce, thank you so much for having me. You're one of my favorite people too, by the way. I enjoy all of your podcasts. You're too sweet. I am too sweet. Let's tell people about you. Ricky is the president and CEO of Woodhole Freedom Foundation, the nation's leading human rights organization dedicated to affirming sexual freedom as a fundamental human right. A longtime activist and coalition builder, Ricky has spent her career defending free expression, advocating for the rights and dignity of sex workers, and challenging laws and policies that restrict personal autonomy. Under her leadership, Woodhull has become a national force in the fight against censorship and government overreach, bringing together lawyers, activists, and communities to protect and advance human rights for all. Woodhull's mission is to protect sexual freedom as a fundamental human right. How did they take that long to pass the law and have the law be just so incredibly bad? You could ask yourself that, couldn't you? I just did. We were at an ex-biz show and someone from Ofcom was at that conference and interviewing people and collecting input that was theoretically, remember that? I think I do remember that, yes. This was going to have a big impact on how the legislation was crafted. Yeah, no, not so much. Not so much at all. And, you know, it begins, again, it begins with adult content. So let's just pull back a little bit and say, keeping in mind that it's always about sex and sexuality. That's a large part of what the government is trying to suppress, to say nothing of personal autonomy. So if you look at the restrictions on the porn sites, age verification, you say, not about me, I don't look at porn. But it didn't stop there. It goes to books, It goes to literature. It goes to textbooks. It goes to sexual education. Sex ed is going to go back to what I call two lima beans and wet spaghetti, which is how many, many years ago, they would depict for just the girls in school, not the boys. The boys were separate. What your reproductive justice system looked like. Organs, not justice. And it was two lima beans and wet spaghetti. You can picture that. Yeah, I'd rather not. Thanks. I don't even know that we're going there. We're going back to the schools pushing abstinence only. And that works. And that works so well. So, so, so well. Kind of like, don't eat that, you'll gain weight. Or the rhythm method. The rhythm method, one of my favorites. Yes. Yeah. So this is how this is affecting everybody. It's affecting websites. It's affecting art. Amy Sherald, who pulled out of her art exhibit, it was at the Smithsonian. She pulled out, she removed everything. She's a painter, wonderful painter. She did Michelle Obama's portrait. That was beautiful. Wasn't that gorgeous? Well, she pulled out of an exhibit at the Smithsonian because they wanted her to remove anything about, well, primarily, let me say. She had a painting of a transgender Statue of Liberty. Stunning painting. Fabulous. Fabulous piece of art. They wanted her to not show her painting because they wanted to avoid provoking Trump. This was a whole solo show at the Smithsonian's National Portrait Gallery. Wow. She said, thank you now. Yeah. I mean, that show had to have been the show of a lifetime, but she walked away. Well, I think she's done pretty well in her career. She has that option. So that's good. But this is where what starts with censoring porn, that starts with censoring adult content. Now, where does a young person or a mature person wondering, let's see, why does it hurt when I have penetrative sex? Well, if you end up on a site that has that information, the answer to that question, and to lots of other questions about sex and sexuality. You know, right now, we've got that law about 33 and a third percent. Where does this site go? I don't know. That's a good question. Yep, it could be labeled as porn. There's no two ways about it. It could. And so could medical textbooks. So could X, let's face it. Well, yeah. So, you know what? Sometimes I go into Instagram, and all of a sudden I have an ad picture of someone engaged in an adult activity. Really? An IG? Really? Wow. Yeah. The same. I know someone who lives in Florida who wasn't paying really good attention and was shocked when they went to Pornhub and it said, yeah, we're not streaming here because of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Probably got greeted by Sheritaville. Probably. Yeah. And I said, well, you can always use a VPN. And his answer was, no, just find what I need on Google. Yeah. Which is what's that what that's going to do with the kids. That's going to lead them to some pretty dark places. Of course it is. When you remove legitimate information, when it's just it's censorship. Yeah. And as we talked about, I don't remember if it was before the interview. I think it was before we actually turned it on. We talked about Solomon Friedman. And he did a two-part episode on Adult Side Broker Talk. And he is, well, he's one of the owners of the company that owns Pornhub and all the other sites. And they have done just such a marvelous job of turning things around there. And I mean, they do just a fantastic job of keeping things clean now. And so if a kid is going to go somewhere. I'd rather they go there. Oh, yeah, because otherwise they're going to go to places where there's bestiality and snuff. Because when you remove the legitimate sites like Pornhub, or when you restrict them, Pornhub, Chatterbait, sites that really protect both the users and the creators. When you remove or restrict access to them, that's where you've turned out the light and you've left only the dark. And that's why we call it the dark web, right? Yeah. I made that up. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, some sites that are hosted offshore are pretty disgusting. And, you know, I don't like even using the word disgusting when it comes to adult content, but these people have absolutely no boundaries. And you can find anything there, including a lot of things that you shouldn't be able to find online. And so, yeah, that's where the kids are going to end up. So hopefully the parents are happy with their age verification because that's what your kids are going to see. Some of those laws and platform policies, they disappropriately harm marginalized communities, especially LGBTQ plus creators and sex workers. Can you explain why? Marginalized communities, they lose income. They give up safety. And in many cases that may not have an ID, you know, not everybody drives a car. Not everybody has a driver's license. For communities that rely on the internet to find community, you know, the one young person living in a restricted community in Utah, for example, who thinks that they're the only person in the world and there's something wrong with them, they can go online and they can find out that they're not the only person in the world. And you know what? Maybe that saves them from suicide. Exactly. Exactly. Yes, a lot of LGBTQ plus people are depressed and something like not being able to reach out can push them over the edge. And here we have an administration that eliminated the national suicide hotline for this community. I didn't know that. Yes, they did. And why did they give a reason for that? Nope. Not that I ever saw. Well, that's kind of par for the course, unfortunately. They're doing all kinds of things to harm people. So that to me is par for the course, unfortunately. What role does financial discrimination play in silencing adult content creators and how is Woodhull addressing this issue? So banks and processors often de-platform adult creators. We did a study with CUNY and John Jay in New York about the de-platforming of sex workers and creators and the impact that de-platforming has in these lives. It cuts them off from lawful livelihoods. And so when, oh my gosh, this is such a big issue. So Visa and MasterCard are actually controlling what we can access online. And they do that by threatening to withdraw the ability to process. It's a death sentence. It's a death sentence. It's a death sense. But it's more than that. That's just online. There are very few banks where a sex worker or a content creator can safely put their money. Don't I know? I've been there. Oh, you too? Oh, of course. I've lost accounts because of my industry. Absolutely. And there's no recourse. And so now all of a sudden, you're penniless because in some cases, They've seized all of your assets. So, and you may be able to prove that you're not doing anything illegal, but, you know, too late and too bad. So financial discrimination is huge. That's why the Free Speech Coalition is trying to get a credit union started. Yep. God love them. Hopefully they will. I hope they can, because that would help so many people to at least know their money is safe. PayPal is famous for seizing funds. Oh, I know. They did it to me too. Yeah. Yeah. Consulting money. Yeah. I've been through it all. So it's, you know, that's another tool in the arsenal. We're seeing attacks, we're seeing tools that you could think of as missiles or machine guns or cannons. Do we still use cannons anywhere? No. Or maybe we do. But think of each of these things as a weapon in the arsenal of the attack of the battle plan. Yeah, the anti-porn people. The anti-porn, the prohibition of pleasure, just like we prohibited alcohol. Well, this administration has taken us back, I would almost say to the 1800s, but we can say the 20s. Easily, easily. And, you know, prohibition was one of the most violent times in this country. You know, obviously, we had the Civil War, that was violent. But Prohibition was sustained violence. It's when the mobs got their toehold in this country. I mean, they were here before then, but not at the level that Prohibition gave them. That's true. That's true. And the mob brought more trafficking. And here we are, having not learned any lessons, doing the same thing, but what we're prohibiting is pleasure. Yeah. And I like to think, or I don't want to think, but I know that you look at Nazi Germany, and I don't think it's too extreme to say there's a lot of parallels between the current administration and Nazi Germany. It's the same playbook. It's almost line for line, line for line for line. If you take out trans and you put in Jews, you're hearing the exact same language. You can see the exact same goals. As a Jew? Okay. It really hits home with me. And again, Ricky, it's so nice to be in Thailand. So beyond legislative threats, how are corporate policies and online platform rules contributing to the censorship of sexual expression? Well, the platform rules often go further than the law. And in an attempt to protect themselves, they erase sexual expression completely. You know, some government regulation is good. And I'm not saying it isn't. But at this point, we're all regulation. And we're no human rights or civil rights. And corporations go by the bottom line. They did get burned, by the way, mainstream tech did not get involved in the AV fights, that might have had an impact. Well, they're feeling it now. They are feeling it now. That's exactly right. Elon really should have paid a little more attention. You think? Instead, he was buddy-buddy with, you know. We knew that had to end. Oh, well, yeah. If you look at both of them, they don't have friends. No. So the two of them together as friends, it's like, yeah, that ain't going to work. That won't end well, and it hasn't ended well. But the lovely organization that Mr. Musk set up is certainly doing incredible damage to the country. You know, somebody on social media who's an avowed Trumpster, his first name is Benny. I don't know his other. It's a longer handle than that. But he was outraged that police broke into his house and frightened his children. There was a fire in the house next door to him. I don't, I literally don't know the whole story. Did he get catfished or something? I'm not sure what happened, but I was thinking his outrage that his child was sleeping upstairs and frightened. Well, first of all, they had to evacuate the house because the house next door was on fire. Right. Was it the SWAT team or something? I don't know the details, but what I was thinking is I read his outrage that this had happened to him of all the families that are being torn apart, literally torn apart by this administration's policies around immigration. And I thought, you know, so somebody saved your life and got you out house and you're upset because they didn't ring the bell. Is that it? Now, granted, I didn't read the whole story, so it may be much more than that, but that was how I felt. And it took me right to the families we see on the street with children screaming as they're torn away from a parent who's pushed into a car by people so ashamed of what they're doing, ICE, that they wear masks and hide their badges. That's right. No doubt about it. What does history teach us about the dangers of allowing governments to decide what kinds of sexual expression are acceptable? Well, how far back do you want to go? We can go to the snake, the snake in the Garden of Eden. Maybe not that far, but anyway, go ahead. Well, somebody should have censored that snake. We have always in this country had a puritanical bent. Sex was never something embraced or accepted as just the normal course of life. It was always something hidden. It was something that was only talked about in whispers. It wasn't really until I would say, I would say Victoria Woodhull and Ida Craddock, I would say that they started the national conversation. By the way, Caitlin Bailey's been interviewed. And as we're talking, she'll be on next week, September 9th, just to let you know. Caitlin Bailey is such a fabulous entertainer. Yeah. I'm so knowledgeable. Oh God, I want to see your show. But she mentioned Victoria Woodhull and the fact that she was a courtesan. So, and all the things she did. Yeah. I mean, she didn't get that seat on the New York Stock Exchange just because she was pretty. Right. Right. But, you know, we don't talk about that. And she didn't talk about that, But she did talk. Victoria Woodhull was a strong advocate for free love. Yeah. She was way ahead of her time, wasn't she? She was way ahead of her time. That's how she lost her standing in the women's rights community, because she said a couple things way ahead of her time. She said she wouldn't campaign for women to have the vote without also campaigning for women to have equal rights. Because she said without equal rights, the vote is meaningless. She campaigned for an eight-hour workday. She campaigned for marriage rights for women. And when was this again? Actually, Victoria Woodhull is coming up on her 127th birthday on September 23rd, which is actually we're having a celebration, but this will come out after that. But September is Sexual Freedom Month. She's the first woman to have run for president. Caitlin mentioned that, yeah. Yeah, she spent election night in jail. Women didn't have the vote. She championed divorce reform, sex ed, working people's rights, her campaigns for free love. She promoted the idea that people should have the freedom to enter and leave relationships without social or governmental interference. That was blasphemy back then. It was. And boy, they came after her. And that's Comstock. We talked about the Comstock law. Comstock was her sworn enemy. Oh, God. Yeah, she was back. She was back in his day. Oh, my God. Yeah. That's crazy. That's crazy. So she wanted and did send out a newspaper. And he needed to stop that. And so he got this silly law passed. Wow. Yeah, and I heard he was a hell of a guy too. A man who spent his adult life trying to restrict pornography because, and his diaries show this, he wanted to not masturbate and he couldn't control himself. And so he tried to control what would tempt him. And don't we see that all the time? He was the original no fap. Yes. Yes. And we see it over and over now. The people pushing the most restrictive legislation are the ones who, you know, a couple months later, you read that they were caught in the bathroom, forcing somebody to give them a blow job or have sex with them. And, or I forget who just, It was the latest one, was having sex with underage people. Oh, what about the scumbag who used to be a congressman in Florida? I can't even think of his name right now, but anyway, you know what I'm talking about. I do. And my mind went right to the man sitting in the White House. Yeah, I know that Trump wanted him in his cabinet. Yeah, that didn't go very far. So how does the fight against censorship of adult content intersect with other human rights struggles like reproductive justice or racial equality? They're all connected. First of all, the people producing, consuming, and making livings off of adult content, that's not their only identity. They're mothers. They may be members or fathers. They may be members of the LGBTQ plus community. They may have issues with reproductive issues. Mental health. Mental health. Exactly. So it's all connected. It's the same playbook. Restrict bodies and identities. And then you can restrict every other right. because once they do control our sexual expression, they control our identities, relationships, and our rights. You know, I think I remember what I commented on Comey Barrett's comment in her book was it had to do with overturning Roe versus Wade. So that was my comment. I called her a cunt, but anyway. Yeah, you know, that was not great law. No, but overturning it wasn't great either. Overturning it was just, it's just symbolic of this Supreme Court. Yep, absolutely. What can we destroy and tear down? Well, and then FSC versus Paxton. Oh. That went, as we know, Texas's way. And it shouldn't have. No, not at all. He's a real piece of work, isn't he? Not to mention his wife. What are the most urgent policy battles Woodhole is engaged in right now regarding adult content? Well, we're still challenging dangerous age verification laws, and we are pushing back against corporate censorship like Meta. We're also challenging censorship in libraries, in schools, because they're all around sex and sexuality. All of these issues are sex and sexuality. And sometimes, sometimes we're winning. I know I got your newsletter today. Oh, did you? Isn't that great? Yeah, I got it right before we talked. Yeah. So in Florida, we helped stop a bill that would have banned the display of flags. That was an attack on free expression and LGBTQ plus visibility. In Oklahoma, we helped kill a drag ban and issued statements opposing multiple dangerous bills targeting bodily autonomy. In Rhode Island, with our support, two bills expanding sex worker rights were signed into law. Colorado, two pro-trans bills became law. And an invasive age verification bill was defeated. It's back. But in Texas, we helped stop attacks. It's kind of like Freddy Krueger. It always comes back, doesn't it? Always comes back. In Texas, we helped stop attacks on abortion access and sex toy sales. And in New York, we helped advance a bill that would provide immunity to sex workers when reporting a crime. So that when they say we were beaten, our money was stolen, the answer isn't you're under arrest because you were committing prostitution. The answer is, okay, you have immunity and you're a victim. Well, yeah, the police violence against sex workers is just over the top. And it's been discussed a lot on this podcast and it's extremely sad. And that's a good thing. And that's something that should be the case nationwide, that they should have immunity to report attacks, whether it be customers or whether it be police. No doubt about it. It's the prohibition of pleasure, though. Absolutely. We have to punish people who are having sex that doesn't meet the traditional, I'm thinking of that book, The Handmaiden Tale. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Most definitely. Well, maybe they should read the Bible because the Bible does have prostitutes in it. So there you go. Wasn't there a Mary who was a prostitute? Yeah, I don't go there. I didn't get that deep in it. But anyway, so if someone outside the adult community wants to help defend free expression, what's the most effective way for them to get involved? Oh, well, speak out, donate and show up. Silence gives censorship a green light. Talk about all of us showing up for every community and issue. Get creative. Call politicians. There are all kinds of platforms. There's something five calls that connects you right away to your legislators' offices. Call and say, I like this. I don't like this. It's important that we also thank people when they support us in something. Let them know that their constituents are watching and are pleased with what they did. Yeah. And donate to organizations like Woodhull. Absolutely donate to organizations like Woodhull. Freedom is not free. It's an old saying, but it's never been more true than it is today. So looking ahead, what's at stake if these anti-adult content laws and policies go unchallenged? If they go unchallenged, which won't happen as long as Woodhull's there, but if they go unchallenged, I see a future where the internet and our personal freedoms, because it's going to extend beyond the internet, are all censored into silence. It's a future where the internet is sterilized, art is erased, and personal freedom exists only on paper. I mean, how bad could you see it getting in the United States? Because here's the unfortunate part, okay? A lot of people just assume, and we know if you break down the word assume what that means, but a lot of people just assume that the United States will be all right. And that there are attacks on this group and that group. But I mean, will the United States ever really lose democracy? I think it's possible. It's what gets me up and at my desk every day. The fact that it is possible. We've seen how easily someone with no understanding or dedication to the concept of democracy can strip away rights, can silence opposition. I think if we look at history, we see a pendulum where we swing to the left and we swing to the right. And right now we've gone all the way up to the very, very top of the right. The pendulum has always come back. It's always come back. So I do believe that we will be able to reclaim our country. It's going to take a long time and some really strategic thinking to overturn the damages and the harms that this administration has put into place. But I think it can be done. I believe that. It can't be done if everyone stays silent. It also can't be done if everyone stays in their silo. If all you're concerned about is whether your platform can keep working and you're not looking at the broader issues and finding where you can not only support other efforts, but in giving that support, you can find additional allies. It's going to make this a very tough fight. We talk to each other. We don't look outward to the general population and talk to them. Lots of people didn't even know there was a battle around age verification. I know when you're in the adult industry, that seems so implausible, but the truth is lots of people had no idea that this fight was going on, no idea of what it would mean. And in the grand scheme of their lives, they weren't really very concerned. Ricky, I can tell you for a fact that there are people in the adult industry who don't know about all this. Well, that's depressing. Yeah, especially those among the performer and creator area, that there are many who they don't really look at any of that. Actually, I wasn't thinking of that. I was thinking of platform owners, but yes. No, platform owners, I think, are very, very aware. They have no choice but to be aware. But if you look at the creator and performer side, there are many who don't know what's going on. Well, I know we are trying to start those conversations. I know that a joint project with New Moon Network is EPA United, and they're doing an enormous amount of outreach to content creators. And, you know, all we can do is keep talking. And maybe like the phrase canary in the call mine, we'll get to hear that content creators are starting to be more aware. Yes, and they're voters. And yes, as you know, I've had Savannah on from New Moon as well. And I plan to have her back on again, like I had you back on again. And look, we've got to let people know about this stuff. And these types of conversations are the best way to do it. You know, the Ex Biz Miami conference has become very focused on content creators. Yeah, that and their Amsterdam show is going on as we talk, actually. As we speak, right. And so that's getting the message out that we've spoken at Ex Biz Miami. We've talked about this. Last year, we did a workshop called We're Going to Need Some New Friends that talked about why the issues are important. why we need allies. And we had for the very first time at XBiz, we had Equality Florida join us and talk about the intersections of LGBTQ plus rights and the adult industry. And hopefully, there are lots more of those conversations because we have to make our allies aware. And we have to be more aware of what our allies are fighting for. Oh, absolutely. And then we have to turn and face out and talk to the general public. Well, and I think it's important not only to be at the expat shows, but to be at the Exotica shows and the AVN. And wherever sex workers are, they do need to be educated. There's no two ways about it, because they do need that information. And if they don't get it that way, then they're probably unlikely to get it. That's, you know, that's kind of what I see. Yeah, I agree with you. I definitely agree with you. You know, that's where those donations come in handy too. Big time, big time. And how can people reach out to you and donate to Woodhull? They can reach me at rickie, R-I-C-C-I, at woodhull, W-O-O-D-H-U-L-L, foundation.org. And they can donate to Woodhull by going to woodhullfoundation.org. You'll see the donate button. I bet. We'll make it bigger. Ricky, thanks for being our guest again today on Adult Side Broker Talk. And I hope we'll get a chance to do this again soon. I certainly hope so, Bruce. I love talking to you. Likewise. My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week, we talked about converting traffic and improving user experience. Make a good offer. If you're selling something and the offer isn't good, you won't make money. It's plain and simple as that. And if your offer is to contact you or to get more information, then make the offer attractive and easy to understand. If you're selling something, make buying easy. Show them an easy way to buy and then leave. Help them by making suggestions on what to buy. Amazon.com is the best at this. They always have suggestions on what to buy based on your buying and browsing history. They use AI to do this. There are AI engines available these days at a modest cost. Look into this if you can. Don't clutter up your site with unnecessary items, buttons, and images. Keep it as simple as possible. The best and most successful sites are the simple ones, the ones that lead you to take the action you'd like them to take. It's not that hard. Just remember, when you're putting together any site, try to think through the buying process like a human being. Whatever you do, don't turn over that process to your designer. Don't just say, build me a website. What you'll get out the other end will not give you what it is you're looking for. Give them as much direction as possible and make it easy for them to build a site for you that makes your business succeed. We'll talk about this subject more next time. We'll be off next week for the holidays. Next time, we'll be speaking with Ash Miller of the Cupcake Girls. And that's it for this week's Adult Side Broker Talk. And once again, I'd like to thank my guest, Ricci Levy of Woodhull Freedom Foundation. Talk to you again next week on Adult Side Broker Talk. I'm Bruce Friedman.
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