This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Natalie Pannon of Mojo Host. We’re proud to announce we’ve launched a new website at adultsitebroker.com. This attractive new site is easier to navigate and now includes this podcast inside of it. Check it out at adultsitebroker.com. Your first sellers or buyers to us at adultsitebroker and our affiliate program ASB Cash will pay you 20% of our broker commission. This can amount to tens and even hundreds of thousands of dollars. Check out ASB Cash.com for more details and to sign up. And we’re proud to announce our latest project thewaronporn.com. You’ll find articles on age verification laws and more on the industry’s plight in the war on porn and the numerous attacks on us. Go to thewaronporn.com and check it out. Now time for our property of the week that’s for sale at adultsitebroker. We’re proud to offer a diverse and adult themed social network and dating site for trans women and admirers. The site was established two years ago to provide a discreet adult space for trans women and men who love to chat, share photos and videos and make friends. This niche category while large still has room to grow unlike many others that are oversaturated. This is evident in the site’s growth since it opened. The site’s owners left no details unchecked when setting up their content filtration system to mimic that of X to enhance privacy while minimizing liability on adult content. After their price increase, the site’s members have happily continued to pay more. All traffic is direct with the bulk coming from X and Instagram. This is a true turnkey operation that requires minimal upkeep and expense. The site uses an advanced script that has been highly customized and remains easily changeable so the options are endless. There’s an advanced payment gateway for CC bill among several other options. There’s even the ability to pay with Bitcoin. One person can run the site, no team is needed. It’s on course to earn six figures in 2025. Only $210,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker Talk is Natalie Pannon, a Mojo host. Natalie, thanks for being back on Adult Site Broker Talk. Thank you, Bruce. Good to be here. It’s always good to have you. Mojo Host holds many awards for outstanding hosting services and business practices. Established in 1999, Mojo Host’s growth and attention to powering the success of its clients has positioned it as the choice for mainstream hosting needs as well. They offer dedicated servers, virtual private servers, the Mojo CDN Global Content Delivery Network, Mojo Cloud Cloud Computing Services, Mojo Shield Website Security, and other web technology solutions. Natalie has been part of the adult industry for over 11 years and grew from doing technical support to sales and marketing positions. She’s now the business development, sales and marketing manager at Mojo Host or BDSM. Her job is to take on anything required to develop the business, so duties are quite varied from sales and marketing to HR and team building. She handles what needs to be done and is not afraid of the responsibility that comes with showing initiative. Natalie has a master’s degree in journalism and has worked in many fields before entering adult. She’s been a teacher and sold diamonds wholesale, a barista and a legal clerk. She enjoys reading sci-fi and fantasy books and if she goes to the movies you can pretty much bet it’s about superheroes. She wears many hats, the two most wide brimmed of those being our Mojo Host, BDSM and Mom. So, how’d you like your commercial? Aw, that was awesome. Thank you. I’m smiling and blushing all at the same time. I can see your face now. Natalie, you’ve been with Mojo Host for seven years. Some say it’s best to change jobs every five years to avoid things getting stale. So what challenges are you facing and is your work becoming less interesting over time? You know, when I joined Mojo Host, I, well, Brett sort of bet on me in terms of she’ll learn and sort of let me swim and see if I could swim. And I think, you know, I’ve obviously, first year or so, I probably suffered from the imposter complex and spent a lot of time on Wikipedia and made sure I studied everything, pestered every tech there was because it’s a very technologically busy environment, right? It’s not just, you know, selling cakes or selling a simple product. It’s very technologically difficult. So, first, maybe three years were just a lot of learning. And now, yes, I’m already a lot up to speed in terms of new technology and the things we sell, the things we do, the things that can be done in technology and what people are looking for. But also, Mojo Host just never stops. So, I’ve never really found myself in a position where I was bored out of my mind with doing the same repetitive tasks because as soon as I get anywhere close to that, Mojo’s releases a new product that I now need to learn and figure out and sell and talk about and understand most importantly. I think it’s very important for any person that deals with sales or customer service to understand their product. Challenges I’m facing really are just staying on top of all of the new technology we release. The release of Mojo Compute this year was incredibly interesting. I’m still a little bit maybe, you know, back to the imposter complex of trying to figure things out. But at the same time, it kind of takes away that mundane boring everyday tasks where there’s new things to learn all the time. So, no, I don’t feel like I’m getting burnt out with the job or getting tired of it. I feel more like there’s always new things to learn and grow here. Right. And you get to work with Brad. That helps. Yeah. Yeah. What’s happening over at Mojo Host? You just alluded to new things all the time. And I know you and Brad are always cooking up new things. So, what’s going on over there? So, there’s new exciting products we’re releasing. Obviously, hosting has been our bread and butter for many, many years, but it’s never really stayed on the same level or on the same page. We’ve gone from offering dedicated servers, which were the traditional things to sell as hosting, to including virtual services, to including CDN. And now the big release of Mojo Compute, which is, I don’t know if you’ve worked with similar products at other providers. It’s basically an entirely virtualized environment where you simply buy the resources by the hour. And that includes CPU, RAM, storage, storing images. Basically, your entire setup could be entirely managed from the cloud. It’s great. I wouldn’t say it fits every single solution, I mean, every single requirement for use cases. But I think cloud is definitely the future of hosting. I think while not everything is a good fit for it, it is a great fit for many new companies that are starting and also for companies that are unsure about how to scale. New products being developed are basically developed for cloud services. Besides that, we are also working on releasing Mojo Transcoding, which is an ASIC-based solution that will allow you to only pay per hour for the transcoding needs that you have. With the rising changes and new content being put out, that’s 4K, 8K in some cases. VR includes huge files. It’s sometimes not really feasible to keep dedicated servers for these tasks because sometimes it’s a batch transcode and sometimes it’s lower. And then being able to do cloud transcoding allows customers to manage those loads and manage their spend on it. Mojo Databases is another thing that we are working on and are close to completing. And that will be an equivalent to RDS. As Mojo Compute is an equivalent to EC2, Mojo Databases is an equivalent to RDS or Remote Database Services, where again, it’s a entirely virtualized database service. Interesting. Very interesting. Keeping me on my toes, as I said, technology is fun. Yes. Yeah. Fun and it certainly takes a lot of time to keep up with it, I’m sure. So Mojo Host is an iconic company in the adult space because of Brad and the fine team he’s organized. How much pride do you guys take in being with an organization like Mojo Host? There’s definitely pride in being with Mojo Host, but I think for me it’s less being part of that brand, which is well known, and more being part of a company where the focus and the goal is to do the right thing. I’ll never be judged or reprimanded or upset anybody here if I do the right thing. And that just speaks volumes to how proud I am to work here simply not because it’s a famous brand and not because it’s so well known, but because I know that I don’t need to jeopardize my values to work here. I can always stand by what’s right, and then Brad and the company and the team will always support me. That’s awesome. That’s really awesome. And some of the things that Brad and the company is doing now, like supporting the FSC in the lawsuit against the state of Texas, I mean, that’s some pretty cool stuff. Not a lot of companies want to put money into something like this because, well, frankly, I think maybe because they’re just not looking that far ahead, or maybe because people focus on the trivialities or people focus on profit only, whereas it’s very important to make sure to contribute to the industry as a whole to contribute to what our future looks like. And that’s what Brad does. Yeah, I think companies in general tend to be short-siteed that way. They can’t really see too far ahead of where they are right now. And you take, for example, this whole age verification thing, I think, and I said this now probably a dozen, 13 years ago, I said, this is going to be a problem for us. And I said the industry needs to get together and come up with a solution. Now, who am I, right? I mean, it’s not that easy. No, no, no, no, no, that’s oversimplifying it. But I think that if there had been a concerted effort back then, even five years ago, to say, hey, guys, we really need to get ahead of this, because it could become a real problem. And then we started hearing the stuff in the UK that kept getting put off. That should have told everyone that it was time to act, but we didn’t. Well, I think it’s one of those denial situations where people try to think that, no, it won’t actually really happen to me. Things will go on as before. And, well, it’s human nature, really. We try to shield ourselves from hardship by pretending like they don’t exist. But yeah, that’s life. And now, I mean, there has been developments in the industry. Obviously, there’s been a lot of companies popping up that do age verification, some more or some less compliant with what the actual requirements are. But the truth is the legislators themselves aren’t exactly on top of the technologies. And in the end, it just results in confusion as to how to even implement the laws that they’re passing. Well, not only that, but they’re not looking out for the kids. They’re trying to screw us. And everybody pretty much knows that. And they found a way to do it. And the secret interviews and the like about that Russell character who’s now in Trump’s administration, getting caught on secret camera saying, well, this is going to be our way to, you know, to get rid of porn. It’s happening. On the broad scale of things, every politician out there in the world is not interested in bringing any actual positive change. Correct. I sound, you know, I sound very skeptical and and no, you’re right. But the truth of it is they’re they’re interested in their own benefit. They’re interested in being reelected to make sure that those benefits continue. They’re interested in their self image and power and money. That’s the only things they’re interested in. Everybody who thinks otherwise or thinks that they’re out there to do good is wrong simply because even if those good people end up in power, they’re quickly either corrupted or pushed out. Or killed. Well, I mean, depending on the country, I take a broader view because I’m not based in the US, but the truth of it is that it’s the same in every country. Absolutely. And I’ve had more exposure to politics than anybody could wish for first as a journalist and second as daughter of a diplomat who has worked with all of these governmental delegations and has seen that the only time these people talk about the good of the nation or the people or doing something good is while the camera is running. Absolutely. I did not know you had that experience. Interesting. We’re gonna have to talk about that next time I see you. So business development is obviously a broad term. I think it gets overused, to be honest. What should be the job description of a business development manager like you? And how does that line up with what you do every day? I’m going to give an example based on the other types of jobs of the similar caliber. And you know how there’s a salesperson and their job is to manage sales to make sure that they come in and they convert. There is an accounts manager whose job is to take care of existing customers. There is an HR manager whose job is to bring on new faces and talents to the company and grow it, etc. Those jobs are specialized. Business development manager is not specialized. The job descriptions should say solving problems. And that’s what needs to happen when you’re a business development manager. Moreover, it’s your job to find them and then to find ways to resolve them. It’s not just a matter of pointing them out to the responsible person. So you create conditions, you create partnerships, you create funnels, sales funnels, you create solutions for problems to ensure that the company grows. And that’s in the title, although I know the title sounds very broad. The title is to develop the business and developing the business means overcoming whatever bottlenecks it has. And that’s how I see it. My running joke is that I would walk the dog if that helped the company. And I’ve done all sorts of things for Mojo Hosting from hiring new tech people, which isn’t usually a biz devs job, to ensuring that there are no issues on the website, to working with existing customers, to making sure that a referrals funnel, which is a huge part of our sales, is working well and ensuring partnerships with all of the different providers that we can work together with, including CMS systems, affiliate management systems, developing development companies, etc., etc., etc., etc., is just a matter of making sure that the company grows. And having the vision and having the grit to sit down and actually figure out how to solve those problems is what a business development manager needs. And then not being, you know, not being afraid of the responsibility this results in. Obviously, you find a problem and guess who gets to solve it? You do. So that’s my take on business development management, is that it’s not, it’s just not a limited job. It’s a job with so many descriptions, whatever it takes for the company to grow, you need to do. Right. Absolutely. Well, back in the olden days, when I was younger, things were a lot more simple than the titles weren’t quite as fancy. You had a salespeople and you had a sales manager. Imagine that, right? And I remember a sales trainer that I saw his, his talk and he had a very simple description of selling. And he said, "Selling is helping." That’s it. Selling is helping. And I’ve always lived that when I sold radio advertising for 21 years, you know, as, and then owning my own businesses. I always was in a sales situation because that’s how you bring in new business. Not, I mean, not in the traditional sense, but you’re always selling to a degree. A lot of people don’t want to admit they sell. They think, they think that’s a negative connotation. I don’t think so at all. I think if you didn’t have salespeople, where would this world be? I went through that same realization maybe a little later that I should have. And I started in the industry, I started doing technical support. And I love technology. Obviously, I’ve always worked with technology companies after, you know, my initial job search, I realized that’s what I love. And then, you know, they found that I was very good with customers and sort of a people person that just got along with people and could go on solving problems, could help, as you said. The company I was working for at the time was trying to tell me that I would do very well in sales. And I resisted kicking and screaming. They dragged me into sales because I just did not want to do it because in my head, it was this awful image of even salespeople or whatever. Use car sales. Yeah, this pushy person who just tries to get you to buy something you don’t actually need. And that image is wrong. I realized, well, not as quickly as I’d hoped, but I realized eventually that’s, that’s not how you do sales. To do sales properly, you need to solve people’s problems. And for that, it’s not a matter of pushing things on them, but figuring out what it is they actually need. Absolutely. So Natalie, a lot of your work puts you face to face with potential and existing customers. How do you approach and get to no clients while understanding their needs? The truth is, I’ve just never believed in hard sales. So I don’t think that’s, you know, you get on a call or talk to someone and immediately the first thing you do is try to offer them something. My tactic is always to listen and to understand. And that’s where every sales conversation starts. I try to ask questions, but usually people come with a problem or with an understanding or some limited understanding of what they need. And my job is to guide them to a solution that will work for them. Getting to know people is outside of just basic sales. You learn what their problems are and sometimes they’re just general life problems. And sometimes you find out what it is, what their battle is, and try to emphasize and make a connection there. In the long run, that makes sure that the people come back, that they continue purchasing your services, that they make recommendations for you. So building that relationship is much more important to be that closing this one particular sale that’s happening now. And I’ve always abided by that. I’ve never been the pushy salesperson, you know, 17,000 follow-ups in two days. I just don’t believe in that. The more you pester someone, the less they want to spend time with you or talk to you or have you as their solution. You’re just trying to make a win-win for every situation. And that’s what Brad charges me with as his sort of motto is to make sure that the customer is happy and it’s a win for them and for us, obviously. Sure. As it absolutely should be. I do follow-ups and I tell people when I’m going to follow up again, they’ll hear from me on that day. So if they’re not ready yet, yeah, that’s what I’ve always done. I was taught that by one of my sales managers, so I’m still friends with to this day and I’ve known him for over 40 years. He’s doing good. Yeah, you look at the two of us. I’m 67 and he’s 81 and you might not guess who’s older. But anyway, he’s doing, he’s doing really good. He’s got great genes, the bastard. Anyway, what basic rules do you follow in communication with customers and partners that makes the process productive and professional? So the first rule that is very important and I think that everybody should follow is to provide information and that includes all of the information, including things that may or may not be to their liking. And I may get excessive sometimes and I write very long emails, but those emails include everything that we’re talking about, including what the deal is like, what the requirements are, what the needs are, what pitfalls could be. I even extrapolate potential problems there. So making sure that every question is addressed, making sure that every concern is covered, every potential problem is explored is very important in my sales process at least because there’s just so many new answers to hosting. Staying on top of conversations is very important and also keeping it as informative as possible so that the person can make the correct decision based on all the information you provide. And the second one is empathy. You try to make connect with a person in a way that makes sense to you in a way that puts you in their shoes at some point and ensures that you’re actually helping them and not just getting rid of yet another server to stay online. Those are the basics. Obviously, there’s many more. I keep professional. I make sure that all of my communications are proper and correct and informative and not as excessive, but in terms of fully informational where I’m not hiding anything. That’s good. You’ve got the ultimate consultive type of sale because you have to ask them lots of questions to come up with what they need. Correct. Yeah, it’s definitely a long conversation sale. There’s no come in and get this. Here’s your answer. There’s always going to be questions and back and forth. And it kills me how many people don’t work that way. I’ve lately been in the market for SEO services and I get a lot of spam about SEO and I got one yesterday and they like sent me this thing with packages and I’m thinking to myself, well, shouldn’t you be telling me based on what you ask me, what I need as opposed to you giving me small, medium, large, largest? It drives me nuts. That’s probably because you’ve worked in the field. I understand where they’re coming from as well. If you’re working with people who don’t really know how this works, sometimes it’s easier to compartmentalize and to make sure that there’s a product that the person can see or understand. We often get tied up in our own lingo because we know it so well and we think everybody else should. I get that a lot with people trying to pitch traffic deals on me and I only work on the bandwidth side of traffic where it’s the actual technology behind it. Sometimes you just get a text with a lot of three-letter shortening of just terms and terms and terms that you don’t even really understand. In that case, when you try to pitch a product, even if it is a fit for the customer or even if the customer could potentially benefit from it, toning things down and maybe making it a little bit easier to understand is what they’re going for. I don’t blame them. I think it is important for them to first maybe listen and see and realize that you have experience with it. How about talk to me first? It was basically spam. It was a cold email and the funny part about it is they send it to a domain that doesn’t even have a website on it and they always say, "From looking at your website, your SEO could be much better." It’s either that or from looking at your website, we think you could benefit from better design. There’s no website there. Except there’s no website. Yeah. Well, you can definitely benefit from better design then. Yeah, that’s shit. There’s nothing there. You have a break. No, it’s crazy. It’s just crazy. Yeah, I- It’s spam. It’s all formalized emails. I don’t ever do those for Mojo Host. I just think they’re not working. This isn’t the early 2000s where spam actually had an open rate. I tailor my reach outs. I make sure to research the company, even if they are cold, although few are cold now that Mojo Host is so well known. Oh, yeah. You guys must do a large percentage of your business by repeat and referral, right? Correct. It’s great, but it’s also a huge responsibility to make sure to uphold that level of service. But yeah, probably 70% of my own personal sales funnel is referrals or people coming back or repeat business, people growing and expanding. Yeah, we’ve been around for a while now and ours is very high. I don’t know what the percentage is, but yeah, a lot of people like to spread the word, which is always a good feeling. It’s always a really wonderful feeling. It’s not so- It’s not as easy as that. I believe in what is called the WoW experience. And that’s encompasses just being taken care of and also having a service that you’re happy with going forward. Our sales are not a one-time thing. Our customers continue to buy from us months to months. So having the WoW experience is what really brings on those referrals. You have to make sure that the customers really well taken care of to the point where they will go and rave about you. Yeah, raving fans. Generating those is hard, but it’s very much worth it. That’s where the 70% comes from. Well, that’s what another sales trainer that I recall back many years ago talked about was building raving fans. And yeah, it’s all about exceeding expectations. Don’t just match their expectations, exceed their expectations. That’s how you do it. I’ve never done it any differently. So how do you handle an unhappy client? God forbid, Mojo would ever have one of those. Can you give an example when that happened and how you turn things around? So this happens from time to time and obviously happens to anybody who has worked with customers, accounts management, sales management before. I make sure to keep it professional. And the example I’ll give is not from Mojo whose time it is a little bit earlier than that. But I’ve had a customer who was extremely upset to the point where half of their email was unwritten language. And I was actually in a position... You can swear on this podcast. Really? Okay. Well, it was most of the words in there was fuck you, fuck all of us. Go fuck yourself. This was terrible. So the experience there was that the, I think the build it or the paycheck hadn’t arrived on time. And I was in a position of actually managing the accounts team. So a new accounts manager comes to me and they’re like, "Can I just respond to her?" And he’s fuming, obviously. And I’m like, "Worry not. I will write your response." And I wrote this probably four paragraph letter with the nicest language I can put together. Very professional. Thank you very much. We understand your concern. You know, the whole nine yards of just being really, really nice to the person. So they’ll feel like a real prick. I mean, yes and no. They will... I did it with the expectation that the person will step up. And they did. The truth is they replied with, "You know what? I’m really sorry. This was... I was in terrible, terribly unpleasant mood as a result of this." And the situation ended up resolving with the fact that they didn’t write their address correctly, which is why that paycheck never arrived. So it wasn’t even our fault. But the truth was, if I were to respond in kind or respond tartly in any way, that would stain both the company and that relationship. And those people that have had the situation turned around are the ones that become your raving fans. Because if they could have such strong negative emotions, they could have similarly strong positive emotions. How you handle the negative situation, the unhappy situation, the angry customer is very important to you because that same angry customer will go from anger to love very quickly. They’re very emotional. And that’s how you build raving fans as well. Obviously, we have them at Mojo Host. Just recently, we’ve had a very obscure problem with a CDN solution that was so very difficult to troubleshoot. But I work in these situations as sort of a shield, allowing our tech people to work while I talk to the customer and try to calm them down. And to also gather information and to provide as much information as possible. Obviously, with Mojo Host, it’s a lot more technologically complex. So, and the problems aren’t just a missing paycheck. The growth and the how you deal with bad situations speaks volumes to your professionalism, to your company’s image. It’s not only how well you do in the good times, it’s how well you do in the negative times. And by providing a lot of information to making sure that the customer is always updated to making sure that the customer feels heard and feels understood. And, you know, maybe sometimes it’s just a matter of not reading that negativity that spills from them because you don’t know what’s in their shoes. You don’t know how they feel. You don’t know why they feel that way. You don’t know what their other problems are like. You don’t know how well, and you need to figure that out and you need to step into their shoes and you need to try to understand them, relate to them, and to be on the same page to give them the understanding that you’re listening, you’re here, you’re holding their hand. It’s a tough time. Things are being worked on they are going to get better now. Yeah, I mean, they could be in America and it could have been the day that Donald Trump got reelected. I mean, it could be a lot of things, right? Well, I mean, the truth is we all fight our own battles. We don’t know what their problems are and what they’re facing, what they’re going through. You didn’t want to talk to me that day. You did not want to talk to me that day. A lot of people were quite upset. I just kind of pulled in my horns and just went, "Ah." Anyway, what do you do when a client’s problem isn’t something your product or service can directly fix? Oh, there’s a lot of that. That’s part of Good Mojo. People show up with all kinds of problems, whether or not I can solve them directly or not, and they expect help because I’ve sort of grown a following of customers who believe that Natalie is super Natalie and she can solve all of their problems. Some of that belief is grounded and some is not. Not all of it. Although I’ve pulled some pretty remarkable feats. I thought it says that on your business card. I could swear it does. Supernat... No, it doesn’t. But I do strive to solve problems and I thrive while solving them. So, of course, I have a network of contacts. I have a network of... I have whole lists of companies I can recommend for whatever it is the customer might come to me for. I’ve done things from QA on new products to helping a customer choose domain names to all sorts of things that aren’t really part of my job description, but I’m there for that customer and try to solve their problem. The truth is, you just don’t stop. Obviously, if you can’t help, you can’t help. Some problems are not something you can solve and you tell them that. But also, you just try. You go out there and you use your head and your extensive list of contacts and network to try to solve the problem for them. And that’s what I do. That’s why people come back to me. It’s not just because I sell them good hosting that works for them. It’s also because I’m there for them whenever they have a problem. Yeah. Yeah. I always tell my clients and everyone I deal with is my client, even if they’ve never bought anything through us or sold anything through us, especially new people in the industry who I talk to a lot of those. Say, hey, you know, if you ever have a question about this industry, if you ever need a resource, Vamina. Yeah. And those grow with time. Obviously, we go to shows. We connect with different industry people and that network grows. That network is very valuable, especially for people who are just starting out. So helping is important. It also helps the companies that you refer. And they feel like they can send your customers back. It works out well for everyone. Because in the end, the more people grow, the better. And there’s few companies as interested in a website or new project succeeding as your web host is because we’re always happy to see customers grow. And that means that they will grow with us and need more and then we’ll end up growing as a hosting company as well as a hosting customer as well. That’s right. So share an example of when you solved a client’s issue before they knew it was a problem. That happens on the sales process a lot. So there’s quite a few of those cases, but basically people come in with either unrealistic expectations or lack of understanding in how technology works. And that’s why we have a Solutions Architect who is very technologically capable of helping and solving those problems. And when the customer comes in and says we want to do A and B and C, we point out that this is how it will work and this is how it won’t. And this is the best practice to do it. And this is what will work in terms of security. And this is what will work in terms of scaling. And this won’t. I have a funny case actually, a very old time customer who buys among other products CD N from us and CD N is relatively less technologically complex than hosting. But still, it’s a good product. They have a fairly busy website to where their bills are very considerate. Always good. Yes. And he comes to me and he’s like, well, you know what, I’m sorry, but this competition of yours had offered me an option that’s half the price of what you guys are selling. And I’m like, okay, I mean, listen, there’s things we can and cannot do. But let me try to help you. Can you show me what it is they’re offering? And they’ve been my customer for 10 years. So they absolutely trust me with something like this. They sent me the agreement they were about to sign. And that agreement wasn’t for half the price. It was for five times the price. Oh my God. So the conversation they were having was about so that they moved the dot over. And I’m just like, wait, what are you signing up for here? Because it was a one year contract, which I think are despicable. Mojo host never does this. We don’t guys. Yeah, all everything all of our services are month to month. And they were trying to lock in this contract for five times the cost. Can you imagine the problem that would result in because, you know, we’re talking bills in the thousands for just that CDN service, probably tens of thousands. So they were about to quintuple their CDN bill for a year. And thank God I was able to save them from that by simply making sure I read the contract very well. And they went back to the salesperson saying, Hey, this isn’t right. And they’re like, Oh, no, this was correct. So luckily, I was able to save them from that and keep them as a customer on that product. But also, you know, that business could have gone out the window if that was what they were locked into. That’s it’s a very high expense. Big time. Well, they’ll love you forever. How could anybody not come on? It’s Natalie. So how do you decide when to focus on finding new business versus supporting existing clients? Oh, that’s easy. It’s always existing clients first. I can’t leave them. And the truth of it is their existing clients are the huge source of our new clients. So the more I work with some, the better our referral program works. So new business is important. Yes, we try to make sure to put ourselves out there. But also, you know, there’s never a neglect towards existing customers here, because we try to solve their problems first and then bring in new business. I’m working on that as well. And then building partnerships and making sure that new businesses come to us to talk. Sometimes we’re not a fit for them. And sometimes we are. But at least I want to make sure that they know about us and they come to have a conversation first. But it’s always existing customers first. There’s no real decision making there because I can’t just leave people unattended and then go off searching for new deals. Yeah. So what tools or processes help you stay organized and on top of your work? I use a few. I think there is such a thing as too many tools. The day to day stuff, I make sure I log in to do list, which is a, you know, over the counter product for sort of like a checklist. It’s nice because you can share tasks with your other team members. It’s nice because it has a phone app so you can mark off things or have reminders on your phone as well. And it’s nice because you don’t ever really lose things. Yeah, some may sit in the back burner for a few days, but you don’t lose your tasks or lose track of your tasks because they’re on there. I think that’s without it, I wouldn’t be able to organize properly. In terms of emails, I make sure that there are relevant folders for everything. I’m old school. I use Thunderbird for it because it has, I think, the best filter system that exists out there. Yes, yes, I know people will say, "Oh, Gmail," but you laugh. I use Gmail and then I map that into my Thunderbird. I do that. I map that into my Apple mail. I still haven’t gotten off of that. I wish I could. Anyway. So Thunderbird is great because it gives you an extensive way to sort your email. And that helps quite a lot in terms of staying on top of the important things and not losing track of all the notifications or things about, you know, things that you are interested in but aren’t as vital to respond to. So I use that a lot. And lastly, for any sales communications, I use a system called Pipe Drive. It is one of the lighter tools compared to sales sales force or sugar CRM. I use their basic or not basic, but medium plan where it’s not as integrated as everything else, but it allows me two things. A, staying on top of all of my conversations. I set up follow-ups there. I make sure that deals are tracked. And two, it allows me to not bother with making reports, which I will share with you. I hate trying to tally up all the numbers out of, say, like Google Sheets or Excel file is just painful for me. Luckily, Pipe Drive does it for me as long as I track my communications and my deals. It will automatically pool all of the stats and create this beautiful page with Venn diagrams or bar charts, depending on how I want them to present to whoever wants to know what our progress is so far. That’s a wonderful tool. And I swear by it, I think it’s worth every penny. And compared to other products, it’s also not all that expensive. Hey, my boss is great. He never asks for reports. That’s because you’re your own boss. Well, that’s the thing that... Oh, that’s right. No, it’s nice. I don’t think Brad asks for reports too often either. It’s just nice to be able to see your own progress and your own numbers as well. And it helps me see where I’m doing well, where I’m doing worse. It’s good for me as well. There you go. What would you recommend to new people starting in the adult industry? Let go of your misconceptions to start. Don’t expect this industry to be what you thought from the outside it is to be. Be humble in terms of understanding that people around you also are there to make money, but are also people. Try to make as many connections as you can, even if it’s not an obvious sale for you. You still try to focus on making a connection because you’d never know where you’ll get referrals or where you’ll get people coming to you in the end. Obviously, treat it as a job. Have fun at shows, but treat it as a job. Yeah. We’ve seen extreme cases where people haven’t done that. This one’s funny. Don’t overdress. And you can tell at a show where the owners are sitting versus where the salespeople are sitting and the salespeople are going to be in suits and ties and looking very sleek. And then the owners will just be wearing whatever it is they feel like, Brad’s got his blazers and some are just in jeans and t-shirts because they aren’t released. They are to push their product on anyone. I would say don’t overdress. Brad has his own style. Come on. Yeah, it’s true. It’s true, but it’s also not like he’s trying to... He’s not trying to be salesperson in a tie all the time. Just be nice to people. Get to know them. Don’t judge them based on how they look or their businesses. Make connections. Absolutely. You’ve been an adult for a long time now. What’s your take on all the negativity our industry is getting from the outside? The short answer is they’re hypocrites. The longer one is that I believe in taking the setbacks, enrolling with some, and trying to use them to your benefit. As much as we get negativity from the outside of the industry, I think this is why our industry is so close-knit and so eager to support each other and so eager to help each other. This isn’t true for everyone, but it’s a lot more than many other industries I’ve been in. It’s a lot more of a support group. It’s a lot more of a lot more welcoming to do people. There’s a lot better interaction, I feel, and better kinship because we are all faced with the same prejudice from outside. I think we need to work as an industry to build a better image of ourselves. That one’s a tough one because there’s always scandal one way or another. If we act professionally and if we act in good faith, if we try to make sure that minors are protected while also not believing in odd technologies that aren’t working for that same purpose, if we try to stop on this, just try to stomp out the bad actors and the people who are actually doing the wrong things, I think we can slowly turn this around. But there’s always going to be hypocrites and there’s always going to be people who are very negative about our industry and that’s just something we’re going to have to face. True. Last question, you’re also a busy mom as well as working professional. How do you balance home and work life? The image in my head is a juggling octopus, if you can imagine that. The truth is that mom is a full-time job as well as a business development manager and I try to make sure to stay on top of both. Luckily, my work allows me to do the hours that I want as long as I get the job done, which allows me to juggle work and sometimes I would go and bedtime the kids and come back late at night to finish off some things that I’m trying to do. Sometimes I have hours in the morning, sometimes in the afternoon. It’s tough. You have to give up hobbies, you have to give up free time, but the truth is I love being mom as well. I have two beautiful daughters now and they’re growing up maybe even too quickly to my liking. Sure. More time for superhero movies, right? Oh, I haven’t been to the movies in months. But yeah, I mean, you give up your hobbies and then you gain other experiences and life just keeps on going. I’ll have to take your word for that one, my dear Natalie. I’d like to thank you for being our guest again today on Adult Site Broker Talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon. Thank you, Bruce. It was wonderful and I do hope that we do it again. I do too. My broker tip today is part four of how to buy a site. Last week, we discussed making an offer and deciding the best price for the site you’re buying. Once you’ve made your offer, the work begins. If you’re working with a broker like say, oh, I don’t know, maybe Adult Side Broker, we handle the negotiation for you. Let’s say the seller doesn’t accept your offer. They may make a counter offer. If you decide that you’re willing to pay more, you can either accept their counter offer or counter back to them. A good rule of thumb is to always leave room to negotiate. So don’t make an offer that’s the absolute most you’re willing to pay. If you do that, then you have nowhere to go if the owner counters your offer. Once the owner and you have come to a deal, then it’s time to do some due diligence beyond what it is you’ve already done. During the initial process of looking at the site, you should have asked some questions, like in the case of a pay site, how many joins and rebuilds there are per day, and any other pertinent questions. During due diligence, you need to make sure everything is where you need it to be technically to integrate it with what you’re already doing. You may even get your developer involved if you’re not tech savvy. You and or your developer should ask these pertinent questions. Once those are answered to your satisfaction, you should either have the seller or yourself draw up a sales agreement. I always tell my clients to do the agreement. Why? Because that way you can dictate the terms. So whether you’re the buyer or the seller, you can make the rules. But just get ready to have the seller’s attorney change some of those rules. Nothing is final until everything is signed off on. Another thing we do for our clients is a letter of intent prior to the sales agreement being done. This gives your attorney a roadmap for the agreement. The letter of intent and more so the agreement will have all the terms involved, including who pays for everything, who pays for escrow, for instance. This can be paid by the buyer, the seller, or split between both parties. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be speaking with Cole Bing of Player. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Natalie Pannon of Mojo Host. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman. [Music] [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]
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